In this episode, host Corey Nathan takes on one of the biggest challenges in today’s society: toxic partisanship. He explores how political and social divisions have deepened, fueled by media, social networks, and entrenched ideological battles. But rather than just diagnosing the problem, Corey offers a powerful antidote—getting local and engaging in real-life, face-to-face conversations. He draws inspiration from scholars like Jonathan Haidt, Katherine Stewart and Robert Putnam, as well as his personal experiences, to make a compelling case for community-based solutions to polarization.
What We Discuss
✅ The real extent of political division in America—and why it's not as bad as it seems✅ How social media and national narratives exaggerate our differences✅ The philosophy of Carl Schmitt and its impact on modern political discourse✅ Why local engagement—like city council meetings, PTAs, and even bar conversations—is the key to bridging divides✅ Practical steps to foster meaningful discussions and rebuild relationships
Episode Highlights
⏳ [00:02:00] – The growing problem of toxic partisanship and how social media makes it worse⏳ [00:05:00] – A study from More in Common shows Americans want unity, but doubt the other side does⏳ [00:09:00] – Corey shares personal examples of online political attacks and how they reflect broader polarization⏳ [00:14:00] – A key solution: Local engagement and organizations like Village Square⏳ [00:17:00] – How shared community goals, like better roads and schools, help bridge ideological divides⏳ [00:20:00] – The inspiring story of Joe Walsh and Fred Guttenberg: Two ideological opposites who became close friends⏳ [00:23:00] – The challenge of engaging with people who seem beyond reach—and knowing when to step away⏳ [00:26:00] – A call to action: Take the first step, invite someone for coffee, and start humanizing one another
Featured Quotes
🗨️ "Division defines the country, but the desire to be united transcends parties." – More in Common study🗨️ "The number one antidote to toxic partisanship is simply getting together." – Corey Nathan🗨️ "When you're with each other, you're no longer just a data point—you’re a human being." – Corey Nathan🗨️ "We don't have to agree on everything to build something better together." – Liz Joyner, Village Square
Resources Mentioned
🔗 Village Square – Bridging divides through local community engagement🔗 More in Common Study – Research on polarization and unity🔗 Jonathan Haidt’s Work – Understanding social and political divisions🔗 Robert Putnam’s Bowling Alone – How community engagement strengthens democracy🔗 Joe Walsh & Fred Guttenberg’s Story – Bridging the political divide
📣 Call to Action
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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🔥 Now go talk some politics and religion—without killin' each other! 🔥

In this episode, host Corey Nathan welcomes investigative journalist and author Katherine Stewart back to the show. Katherine has spent over 15 years researching and reporting on religious nationalism and its impact on American democracy. Her new book, Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy, exposes the deep financial and ideological networks fueling Christian nationalism and the broader anti-democratic movement.
This conversation explores how extreme wealth, disinformation, and religious nationalism are being weaponized against democracy—and what we can do about it.
📌 What We Discuss
How Katherine Stewart uncovered the deeper connections between Christian nationalism and the assault on democracy.
The role of money and misinformation in fueling anti-democratic movements.
The reactionary nihilism driving today’s far-right ideologies.
The influence of Carl Schmitt’s philosophy on modern authoritarian movements.
The connection between Christian nationalism and billionaire-funded political agendas.
How we can protect democracy and fight back against these movements.
⏳ Episode Highlights
[00:00:00] – Introduction to Katherine StewartCorey introduces Katherine Stewart, her investigative work, and her new book Money, Lies, and God.
[00:03:00] – The Origins of Her InvestigationKatherine shares how her research started with Good News Clubs infiltrating public schools and evolved into uncovering a broader movement attacking democracy.
[00:12:00] – The Enlightenment Ideals America Was Founded OnHow fundamental American values like pluralism and democracy are under attack by Christian nationalist movements.
[00:19:00] – The Role of Money, Lies, and Christian NationalismHow billionaires, propaganda, and religious nationalism work together to undermine democracy.
[00:28:00] – The Psychology of the MovementStories from inside Moms for Liberty and other right-wing organizations, and how fear and misinformation fuel these movements.
[00:32:00] – Carl Schmitt and the Playbook of AuthoritarianismHow Nazi political theorist Carl Schmitt’s ideas on power, division, and permanent emergency are influencing the New Right.
[00:41:00] – Why We Should Be Concerned—and What We Can DoKatherine explains why we should be alarmed, but also how grassroots activism can defend democracy.
[00:44:00] – Final Thoughts: How We Can Build a Pro-Democracy CoalitionKatherine shares her six key takeaways from Money, Lies, and God and why organization and truth-telling matter now more than ever.
📢 Featured Quotes
"They told us they were going to smash the institutions that safeguard democracy—and that’s exactly what they’re doing." 
"This movement isn’t just about the culture wars—it’s about power, money, and dismantling democracy itself." 
"They want to replace public education with a religious and corporate-controlled system. The culture wars are just a smokescreen." 
"Not everybody who wants to go back to the ‘good old days’ is a nihilist. But those who want to smash democracy in pursuit of a mythical past certainly are." 
📚 Resources Mentioned
Katherine Stewart’s Website: KatherineStewart.me
Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy – Available Everywhere Books Are Sold
Carl Schmitt’s Political Theories – Learn More
 
📣 Call to Action
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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🔥 Now go talk some politics and religion—without killin' each other! 🔥

In this edition, Corey Nathan challenges listeners—especially his fellow Christians—to consider whether they have forgotten the first commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." He explores how idolatry has evolved beyond worshiping wooden idols and now manifests in politics, ideology, and the way Christians engage with their faith in a modern democracy.
This is meant to be an open conversation for people of all beliefs. Corey discusses the intersection of faith and civic engagement, posing challenging questions about whether political preferences are shaping morality rather than the other way around.
📌 What We Discuss
✔️ How idolatry in modern times is often just a few degrees off from traditional religious practices.✔️ Why many Christians reject the Jesus of the Gospel in favor of political leaders and ideologies.✔️ The dangers of replacing the God of Scripture with a God of personal or political making.✔️ How politics has become a form of religion for many.✔️ A deep dive into reactions to Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde’s sermon and what it reveals about faith in America today.
⏳ Episode Highlights
[00:00:00] – Introduction: Corey welcomes listeners and introduces the big question: Have Christians forgotten the first commandment?
[00:02:30] – The Meaning of Idolatry Today: It’s not about golden statues but about how religious practices can be slightly distorted—just a few degrees off—leading to misplaced worship.
[00:05:45] – Rejecting the Jesus of the Gospel: Corey recounts the backlash against Bishop Budde for quoting Jesus and discusses how some Christians react negatively to Christ’s actual teachings when they challenge political views.
[00:14:30] – Creating a God in Our Own Image: Are Christians shaping their beliefs to fit their politics, rather than aligning their politics with their faith?
[00:18:10] – Trump, Religion, and the Fruit of the Spirit: Corey examines whether Trump’s actions and character align with Christian virtues, calling out the contradictions in how some Christians perceive him as a godly leader.
[00:21:40] – Religious Symbols and Political Extremism: Corey discusses alarming juxtapositions, like crosses displayed next to gallows on January 6th, and the disturbing fusion of faith and nationalism.
[00:26:45] – The Politics of Cruelty: Highlighting Pete Wehner’s critique of USAID cuts and how many self-proclaimed Christians align with leaders who embrace cruelty.
[00:30:00] – Final Reflection: How do we participate in healing a broken world rather than contributing to its fractures?
💬 Featured Quotes
🗣️ “Idolatry isn’t necessarily about worshiping something completely different—it’s about replacing God with something that looks like God but is just a few degrees off.” 
🗣️ “If you start with political affiliation and back everything else into that—including morality, truth, and even basic decency—you’ve made politics your god.” 
🗣️ “The world is supposed to look at Christians and see Jesus. But too often, it sees something monstrous.” – John Pavlovitz
🔗 Resources Mentioned
📖 The Beautiful Mess by John Pavlovitz – Substack📰 The Cruel Attack on USAID by Pete Wehner – The Atlantic🎥 Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde’s Sermon – YouTube
📢 Call to Action
If you found this conversation compelling, help us continue the discussion:
✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
Let’s keep talking about politics and religion—with curiosity, respect, and a commitment to truth.
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Let’s continue the conversation! 🚀

In this episode, host Corey Nathan engages in a timely and candid discussion with Marcus Ruiz Evans, the leader of the CalExit movement. Marc has been spearheading efforts to make California an independent nation for over a decade, publishing California’s Next Century 2.0 in 2012.
With the California Secretary of State recently approving a petition to start collecting signatures for an independence initiative, this conversation is more relevant than ever. Marc provides historical context, legal perspectives, and the strategic steps required to potentially break away from the United States.
📌 What We Discuss
✔️ Why California is a donor state—giving more to the federal government than it receives in return.✔️ The legal and historical precedents for secession and why Marc believes it’s possible.✔️ The step-by-step process of the CalExit initiative and how Californians can participate.✔️ How political polarization and federal neglect are fueling the movement.✔️ What happens if California becomes independent—from military bases to tax changes.
⏳ Episode Highlights & Key Moments
🕒 [00:02:00] – Marcus shares his personal story and deep ties to California’s culture and identity.🕒 [00:08:00] – Why California’s infrastructure and social programs are underfunded despite its economic power.🕒 [00:12:00] – Historical precedents: California’s brief history as an independent nation and lessons from Scotland’s independence movement.🕒 [00:22:00] – The federal government’s treatment of California, including disaster relief neglect.🕒 [00:31:00] – The current CalExit initiative: How to sign the petition and what it aims to achieve.🕒 [00:39:00] – Would Congress allow California to secede? The politics behind the decision.🕒 [00:43:00] – What would independence look like? Tax benefits and regulatory changes for businesses.🕒 [00:47:00] – The growing divide in America and why the U.S. is as politically polarized as it was after the Civil War.
💬 Featured Quotes
🗣️ “California has been a donor state for over 45 years. We give more than we get, and we’re funding infrastructure for states that are already better off than us.” – Marcus Ruiz Evans
🗣️ “When the president of the United States tells California ‘I don’t know if I want to help you’ while people’s homes are burning, that’s not how you treat fellow countrymen.” – Marcus Ruiz Evans
🗣️ “The federal government stopped publishing reports on which states are donor states right after Governor Schwarzenegger called out the unfair system.” – Marcus Ruiz Evans
🗣️ “The legal claim that secession is impossible is false—Texas v. White actually allows it with the consent of Congress.” – Marcus Ruiz Evans
📚 Resources & Links Mentioned
🔗 Sign the Petition & Learn More – CalExitNow.org📖 California’s Next Century 2.0 by Marcus Ruiz Evans📚 The Big Sort: Why the Clustering of Like-Minded America Is Tearing Us Apart by Bill Bishop📺 Marcus Ruiz Evans on YouTube📜 Texas v. White – The Supreme Court case discussing secession legality
📢 Call to Action
✅ If you support the initiative, sign the petition at CalExitNow.org✅ Call your state legislators to request a Blue Ribbon Panel investigation into California’s independence.✅ Follow us on YouTube – @PoliticsAndReligion✅ Share this episode with fellow Californians and join the conversation.
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What do YOU think? Should California become independent? Let us know in the comments or on social media! 🚀🌎

In this episode, host Corey Nathan sits down with Blake Fischer, the creator and host of The Homeless Conservative podcast. Blake describes himself as a constitutional conservative who feels politically "homeless" in today’s climate. They dive deep into politics, faith, and media, all while challenging ideological silos in an engaging and candid conversation.
Blake shares his unique political journey, from growing up in Oklahoma and getting involved in politics at an early age to becoming a musician touring the country in a punk-rock band. His experiences shape his political perspective, emphasizing constitutional principles, independent thinking, and holding both sides accountable.
📌 What We Discuss:
✔️ Blake’s political awakening and how his family's involvement in local politics shaped his views.✔️ What it means to be a constitutional conservative in today’s political landscape.✔️ How his Christian faith informs his political views—and why he's critical of the evangelical right’s embrace of Trump.✔️ His take on Trump 2.0—what worries him and what he’s optimistic about.✔️ The role of media in shaping public perception and the dangers of political silos.✔️ How to have meaningful political discussions without losing friends (or your mind!).
⏳ Episode Highlights & Key Moments:
⏱️ [01:30] – Meet Blake Fischer, host of The Homeless Conservative podcast.⏱️ [03:00] – Blake’s early exposure to politics—from family involvement to local campaigns.⏱️ [06:30] – The evolution of political media, from cable news to opinion journalism.⏱️ [10:00] – What does it mean to be a constitutional conservative? Why Blake believes in limiting government power.⏱️ [19:00] – Blake’s background as a musician, touring in a punk rock band.⏱️ [25:00] – His Christian faith and how it intersects with his politics.⏱️ [33:00] – Processing the 2024 election cycle, from Biden’s debate performance to Trump’s nomination of J.D. Vance.⏱️ [41:00] – What concerns Blake the most about Trump’s second term?⏱️ [50:00] – The role of big tech and Elon Musk in Trump’s presidency.⏱️ [57:00] – How can we have better conversations across political and religious differences?
💬 Featured Quotes:
🗣️ Blake Fischer on the Constitution: "The Constitution is brilliant—not because it grants us rights, but because it recognizes that our rights exist beyond government authority."
🗣️ On the evangelical embrace of Trump: "It’s not that Trump can’t be president; it’s that we should stop pretending he’s something he’s not."
🗣️ On political discourse: "The biggest mistake people make in political conversations is assuming bad intent. Most people believe they’re advocating for something good."
📚 Resources & Mentions:
🔗 The Homeless Conservative Podcast – Blake Fischer’s podcast🔗 Jonah Goldberg – Conservative columnist and author🔗 Thomas Sowell – Economist and political thinker
Call to Action
If you enjoyed this conversation, please:✅ Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform✅ Leave a review to help spread the word (https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics)✅ Subscribe on YouTube for video content and short clips (https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion)
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This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about politics, faith, and the future of American democracy. Tune in and join the conversation! 🎧🇺🇸

In this episode, we welcome back Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. Jon joined us to discuss his new book, Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy.
We dive deep into the intersection of faith, democracy, and civic engagement (that's our jam!), exploring how American Christianity has shifted in recent years and what that means for the future of our democracy. We also discuss the aftermath of the 2024 election, the rise of political tribalism, and the role of faith in shaping a more just and stable society.
What We Discuss
How Jonathan Rauch’s perspective on faith and democracy evolved over time (including what Jon refers to as the dumbest thing he ever wrote).
Why he believes Christianity has played a crucial role in supporting democracy—and where it has gone wrong.
The key differences between “thin Christianity” and “thick Christianity.”
How the LDS Church offers a model for civic engagement based on negotiation and peacemaking.
Why the loss of institutional trust is fueling political and social instability.
The role of Braver Angels and other organizations in bridging political divides.
Episode Highlights
⏳ [00:02:00] – Jonathan Rauch discusses his background, his past books, and his upcoming release, Cross Purposes.⏳ [00:07:00] – Reflecting on the 2024 election and why it was surprisingly “ordinary” despite extreme circumstances.⏳ [00:13:00] – How Trump’s second administration is reshaping democracy and institutions.⏳ [00:22:00] – Rauch’s personal journey: From skepticism about religion to recognizing its role in democracy.⏳ [00:35:00] – The rise of “thin Christianity” and how churches are struggling with political identity.⏳ [00:44:00] – How the LDS Church provides an example of “thick Christianity” and civic engagement.⏳ [00:57:00] – Rauch’s concerns about post-liberalism and authoritarian tendencies in American politics.⏳ [01:10:00] – The importance of doubt, curiosity, and engaging across differences.⏳ [01:17:00] – Final thoughts: How to be better citizens and people of faith in a pluralistic society.
Featured Quotes
💬 “I believed, with some justification, that Christianity was bigoted and cruel and hypocritical to minorities like me. And I was wrong.” – Jonathan Rauch
💬 “Liberalism, properly understood, means that all human beings are created free and equal. And if we lose that, we lose everything.” – Jonathan Rauch
💬 “The LDS Church is one of the few religious institutions that has thought through a theology of civic engagement. And that’s something all Christians can learn from.” – Jonathan Rauch
💬 “Jesus’ message is radical and countercultural. The question is: Are we actually following it?” – Corey Nathan
Resources Mentioned
📖 Cross Purposes: Christianity’s Broken Bargain with Democracy by Jonathan Rauch 📖 The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth by Jonathan Rauch🌎 Braver Angels – Bridging the Political Divide
Call to Action
If you enjoyed this conversation, please:✅ Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform✅ Leave a review to help spread the word (https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics)✅ Subscribe on YouTube for video content and short clips (https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion)
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This episode explores the deep intersections of faith, democracy, and civic responsibility. Whether you are religious or secular, left or right, these discussions are crucial to understanding where we are and where we’re headed as a country.
🔥 Listen now and join the conversation, but with gentleness and respect! 🔥

Is it possible to have decent conversations across political differences. Short answer: Yeah!
In this episode, host Corey Nathan explores how we can have meaningful, respectful, and productive conversations with those who think differently from us—politically, religiously, and ideologically. After four years of hosting the show and speaking with a wide array of guests, Corey shares his own insights, offering seven practical tools (plus a bonus tip) for engaging with “one of them” in a way that fosters connection rather than division.
What Is Discussed
How to give yourself and others grace in difficult conversations
The importance of setting proper expectations when discussing sensitive topics
Why asking the right questions is more powerful than having the perfect comeback
How storytelling can humanize those with whom we disagree
The value of being open to the phrase "I never thought of it that way"
How to recognize when it’s time to step away from a conversation or to love someone "from a safe distance"
Resources and organizations that can help you navigate difficult discussions
Episode Highlights
⏳ [00:02:00] – Reviews from listeners: the good, the bad, and the constructive⏳ [00:05:00] – The purpose of this episode: sharing tools for engaging with "one of them"⏳ [00:06:00] – Tool #1: Grace – Accepting that we will all make mistakes in these conversations⏳ [00:09:00] – Tool #2: Proper Expectations – Why we shouldn't expect to change someone's mind 180 degrees⏳ [00:12:00] – Tool #3: Asking Questions – Learning from Jesus' approach of responding with questions⏳ [00:20:00] – Tool #4: Storytelling – The power of narrative in understanding each other as human beings⏳ [00:25:00] – Tool #5: Being Open to "I Never Thought of It That Way" Moments⏳ [00:32:00] – Tool #6: Recognizing Your Line – Knowing when to step away from an unhealthy dynamic⏳ [00:35:00] – Tool #7: Equipping Yourself – Books, organizations, and resources for learning how to engage better⏳ [00:38:00] – Bonus Tip: Taking Care of Yourself – Mental, emotional, and physical well-being in this work
Featured Quotes
📢 “Give yourself grace. You’re not going to get it right every time.”📢 “If we ask the right question, it allows that person, instead of being in a posture of combat, to tell their story.” 📢 “Trying to inform, like trying to win, can get in the way of trying to listen.” – Monica Guzmán (as quoted in the episode)📢 “People are mysteries, not puzzles.” – Monica Guzmán
Resources Mentioned
📖 Books:
I Never Thought of It That Way – by Mónica Guzmán
How to Know a Person – by David Brooks
🌍 Organizations:
The Village Square – Encouraging healthy civic discourse
Braver Angels – Bridging political divides through dialogue
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Patreon – Support the show
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If you enjoyed this episode, please consider:✅ Subscribing to the podcast on your favorite platform✅ Leaving a review to help spread the word (https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics)✅ Sharing this episode with friends and family who want to have better conversations
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🔹 Now go talk some politics and religion—but with gentleness and respect. 💡

In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with Julie Mason, renowned journalist and host of The Julie Mason Show on SiriusXM’s POTUS channel. Julie brings decades of experience in journalism, spanning local, state, and national politics, and shares her sharp insights on the evolving media landscape, political discourse, and the state of journalism today.
What We Discuss:
The evolving role of journalists in a polarized media environment.
How to navigate news consumption and discern credible sources.
Insights into the challenges of covering politicians and divisive topics.
The growing intersection between social media platforms and journalism.
Why re-engaging with quality news content is critical to democracy.
Mike Pence: The King of Hilarity... Wait. WHAT?!?! No, really
Episode Highlights:
[00:00:00] – Corey welcomes Julie back to the podcast after four years and reflects on her journey in journalism, from print reporting to hosting her SiriusXM show.
[00:09:00] – Julie explains how she transitioned from print to radio and why she took the leap into the unfamiliar world of broadcasting.
[00:20:00] – The challenges of modern journalism: Julie addresses disinformation, lies in politics, and why reporters must focus on stories that truly impact people’s lives.
[00:27:00] – A discussion on how journalism is evolving to meet the needs of a fatigued audience, from long-form storytelling to true crime podcasts.
[00:40:00] – Julie emphasizes the importance of journalists remaining stoic and professional, especially during major historical events like January 6th.
[00:47:00] – Corey and Julie explore ways to have constructive conversations with people across ideological divides, drawing inspiration from bipartisan efforts in Congress.
[00:55:00] – Julie’s call to action: Why supporting quality journalism through subscriptions and active engagement matters more than ever.
Featured Quotes:
“You’ve got to be willing to kick your sources right in the balls if necessary, even if they’re your friends.”
“Politician lied is not really the story—focus on what impacts people’s lives.”
“To have meaningful conversations, you have to put down your weapons and see the humanity in the other person.”
Resources Mentioned:
The Julie Mason Show on SiriusXM’s POTUS Channel – www.siriusxm.com/channels/potus-politics 
Substack Recommendations:
The Great Transformation with Mike Madrid
Tom LoBianco’s 24Sight
Oliver Darcy’s Substack
The Contrarian by Jennifer Rubin and Laurence Tribe
Dirty John Podcast – Listen Here
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