Is there a church that can be for the rest of us? Are we living in a "post-evangelical" world?
 
In this episode, we welcome Joe Smith, lead pastor of Shift GNV in Gainesville, Florida, and host of the Shift Happens Podcast. Known for creating "a church for the rest of us," Joe shares his journey through faith deconstruction and reconstruction, building a community for those feeling spiritually homeless in a post-evangelical world. The conversation explores his innovative ministry, personal experiences, and the broader implications of inclusivity and resistance in modern faith communities.
 
Episode Highlights
[00:01:00] - Corey introduces Joe Smith and dives into his work at Shift GNV, emphasizing the concept of "a church for the rest of us."
[00:02:30] - Joe explains the origins and purpose of Shift GNV, creating a safe space for people navigating post-evangelical spirituality.
[00:06:00] - Defining "post-evangelical" and reflecting on the societal shift away from rigid evangelical structures.
[00:14:30] - Joe recounts his personal experience with religious trauma, including grappling with the fear-based teachings of his upbringing.
[00:23:00] - The transformative impact of fatherhood on Joe's beliefs about gender roles and inclusion.
[00:34:00] - A modern perspective on the parable of the Good Samaritan and its application to societal divisions today.
[00:41:00] - Joe's views on resisting MAGA ideologies and the responsibility of faith communities to challenge injustice.
[00:52:00] - Introducing the Post Evangelical Collective (PEC) and its role in fostering forward-thinking, inclusive church practices.
Featured Quotes
"If I believe that God is love, then this [fear-based compulsion] doesn’t produce good fruit—it can’t be of God."
"Jesus wasn’t scandalous for who he excluded, but for who he included."
"My belonging to God isn’t complete until I understand my belonging to you."
"The boundaries I set are the best way to love you and myself simultaneously."
Resources Mentioned
Shift GNV: Shift Church Gainesville
Shift Happens Podcast: Podcast Link
Post Evangelical Collective: Learn More Here
Recommended Reading: After Evangelicalism by Dr. David Gushee.
Call to Action
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Social Media Links
Corey Nathan (@coreysnathan):
Bluesky
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Joe Smith
Bluesky (@therealjoesmith.bsky.social)
Instagram (@therealjoe.smith)
Threads (@therealjoe.smith)
 
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What has our response been to the wildfires in Los Angeles? Frankly, it's brought out some of the worst of us. But thankfully, there have also been many heroes from LA's firefighters and firefighters who came here from neighboring counties and states, to other countries including Mexico and Canada who lent manpower, vehicles and equipment, to everyday people who've offered up their homes, food and time to help in any way they can.
 
In this special edition of TP&R, we take a look at the devastating wildfires in Los Angeles. Corey shares personal experiences living near the affected areas in Santa Clarita and reflects on the dual nature of humanity's response—highlighting both acts of compassion and the spread of harmful misinformation. Corey calls attention to how political leaders and media figures handle disasters, the role of conspiracy theories, and how communities can unite in the face of adversity.
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:01:00] Corey shares his firsthand experience with the high winds and proximity to the Hearst Fire in Sylmar.
[00:03:00] Personal stories of friends and neighbors who lost homes or were displaced by the fires.
[00:05:00] Discussion on Yair Rosenberg's article about conspiracy theories surrounding the wildfires.
[00:07:00] Critique of political leaders exploiting the disaster for political gain, specifically Donald Trump and Speaker Mike Johnson.
[00:10:00] Praise for Congressman Chuck Edwards’ efforts to combat misinformation following Hurricane Helene.
[00:12:00] The role of media figures like Tucker Carlson, Matt Walsh and Dan Bongino in spreading divisive rhetoric.
[00:17:00] Practical ways to support wildfire victims, including offering shelter, donations, and volunteering.
[00:20:00] Encouragement to be part of "the best of us" through compassionate actions.
 
Featured Quotes:
"Healthy communities ask themselves, what did we do wrong? Unhealthy ones ask, who did this to us?" – Yair Rosenberg
"When did capitalizing on devastating natural disasters to score political points become a thing?" – Corey Nathan
"Most people have done the right thing—neighbors looking out for neighbors, friends checking in with friends." – Corey Nathan
"The ministry of 'that sucks'—sometimes the best thing you can do is just listen and be there." – Corey Nathan
 
Resources Mentioned:
American Red Cross
California Fire Foundation
Charity Navigator
Support on Patreon
Watch on YouTube
Leave a Review for TP&R
Yair Rosenberg's Atlantic Piece
Rep. Chuck Edwards - Debunking Helene Response Myths
Scott Galloway's No Mercy / No Malice
 
Call to Action:
If you appreciate the thoughtful conversations we’re fostering here, please subscribe, leave a review, and share the show with friends. Your support helps us continue discussing important topics with gentleness and respect. Check us out on YouTube and support us on Patreon.
 
Social Media Links:
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Threads
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Our Sponsors
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When there's such chaos amd divisiveness all around us, what can we do to cultivate a sense of hope and humanity?
 
In this episode, we welcome back Wajahat Ali, celebrated writer, editor of The Left Hook Substack, co-host of Democracy-ish Podcast, and author. Known for his humor and insight, Waj brings his unique perspective as a father, storyteller, and political commentator to discuss navigating the tumultuous political and social landscape of 2025. Together, Corey and Wajahat dive deep into themes of decency, empathy, and how to cultivate hope amid chaos.
Episode Highlights:
[00:02:00] Wajahat muses about earning a "Five Timer Club" t-shirt.
[00:04:00] Discussion on the California wildfires and the politicization of natural disasters.
[00:06:00] Wajahat analyzes the blame game targeting DEI initiatives in crisis situations.
[00:09:00] Corey and Wajahat explore the role of empathy and decency in politics.
[00:11:00] Wajahat reflects on hope during his daughter’s cancer journey and how that translates to political resilience.
[00:16:00] Star Wars analogy: How everyday people (the "Ewoks") can fight against authoritarianism.
[00:22:00] A candid discussion on America's historical resistance to progress and how that impacts the current political climate.
[00:35:00] The importance of rest and joy in sustaining activism and engagement.
[00:54:00] Wajahat’s advice on engaging with people across ideological divides—when to plant seeds of change and when to walk away.
Featured Quotes:
"Hope is optimism with action. It's believing in a better story but doing your part to get there." – Wajahat Ali
"You can't save everyone. The caravan must move forward, but the doors remain open." – Wajahat Ali
"We could have been so much better, and we chose this." – Wajahat Ali
"One conversation with one person can create a ripple effect. Even a one-degree shift can matter." – Corey Nathan
Resources
We're on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
Join our community on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion
It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics
Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
How to find Waj
The Left Hook | https://thelefthook.substack.com/
Democracy-ish | https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/democracy-ish/id1473376303
Bluesky | https://bsky.app/profile/wajali.bsky.social

As we welcome in a new year, what is this moment about? What have we been leading up to? And what will the coming months and years be about? 
 
In this episode, Corey reflects on the importance of democracy and decency in today's polarized climate. Emphasizing respectful dialogue and the significance of national and local political involvement, we explore the impact of the election and the ongoing challenges posed by political divisiveness. We delve into insights from notable essays and personal experiences, advocating for voting, recognizing the humanity in others, and knowing when to step away from unproductive conversations. Join us in the commitment to have more basic decency and to respect our democratic institutions.
 
Episode Highlights
[00:00:00] Intro: The intersection of democracy and decency.
[00:03:00] Discusses the significance of respecting election results for a healthy democracy.
[00:05:00] Explores how many voters are motivated by opposition to perceived threats from the other side.
[00:06:00] Highlights Masha Gessen's insights on liberal democracy versus populism.
[00:08:00] Corey shares personal experiences with online threats related to political discourse.
[00:10:00] Emphasizes the importance of modeling proper behavior after elections.
[00:12:00] Reflects on David Brooks’ perspective on understanding people in all their complexities.
[00:14:00] Discusses knowing when to disengage from toxic interactions to preserve well-being.
 
We're on YouTube! 
https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
 
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
 
We're on Patreon! Join the community: 
https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion
 
It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 
https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 
 
Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

(Given that yesterday was the 4 year anniversary of Jan. 6, 2021, an attempted violent disruption of the peaceful transfer of power, one of our nation's most cherished traditions, we thought it would be a good time to refresh our conversation with Prof. Danielle Allen who has been ensconced in the work of renovating our democratic institutions.)
 
Our democracy is brittle. Many would say our Constitutional Republic is in trouble. So what kind of work can we do on "actually renovating our institutions"?
 
We were fortunate to be joined by Dr. Danielle Allen, a democracy advocate, Harvard professor and nonprofit leader who's doing something about it. We talked about how to maintain a loving spirit when faced with "a lot of bleeps"; Danielle's fascinating family legacy and her "obsession" with democracy; what the heck a eudaemonist democratic pragmatist is; the ways the 5 freedoms articulated in the 1st Amendment are under threat; the merits of ranked choice voting, expanding the House of Representatives and other democratic renovations; the imperative of developing a civic portfolio; and how to "not let our differences take our humanity hostage."
 
Prof. Danielle Allen is James Bryant Conant University Professor at Harvard University. She is a professor of political philosophy, ethics, and public policy and director of the Democratic Knowledge Project and of the Allen Lab for Democracy Renovation. Outside the University, she is a co-chair for the Our Common Purpose Commission and Founder and President for Partners In Democracy, where she advocates for democracy reform to create greater voice and access in our democracy, and to drive progress towards a new social contract that serves and includes us all.
 
We're on YouTube! 
https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
 
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
 
We're on Patreon! Join the community: 
https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion
 
It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 
https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 
 
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
 
Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
 
Be sure to read Danielle's series in the Washington Post on How to Renovate American Democracy:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/01/31/danielle-allen-american-democracy-renovation-series/

(Getting to speak with Anne Applebaum was such an honor. She's not only one of the world's most prominent historians and writers, Anne's focus on the fragility of democracy and emerging autocracies couldn't be more timely.)
 
In the 20th Century, we had Cold War adversaries. In the early 2000s, George W. Bush talked about the Axis of Evil. But are those frameworks the most accurate way to understand the forces attempting to undermine not just democratic nations but democratic ideas? And to what degree have these antagonists - those that are fundamentally opposed to our core principles such as the freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly and basic human rights - pervaded U.S. politics?
 
In this episode we welcome Anne Applebaum, Pulitzer-prize winning historian, staff writer at The Atlantic and senior fellow at the Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University. After discussing her motivations, experiences, and insights into the autocratic regimes and their impacts on global democracy, we dive into Anne’s new book Autocracy, Inc.: The Dictators Who Want to Run the World. We explore how autocracies collaborate, ways the rest of the world is complicit in autocratic behaviors, and strategies to combat these influences. The conversation also touches on Anne's personal history and initial fascination with the history, literature, culture and politics of the “Borderlands,” a region that includes Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia and beyond.
 
01:53 Anne's Early Career and Inspirations
16:29 The Concept of Autocracy, Inc.
29:44 Global Complicity in Autocracy
34:39 Hamas and Global Destabilization
37:05 Trump's Influence and Dictator Admiration
39:17 Russian Propaganda and Dark Money in US Politics
42:37 Autocracy, Inc. and Democratic Values
52:43 Engaging in Local Politics and Understanding the Big Picture
 
anneapplebaum.substack.com
 
www.anneapplebaum.com/book/autocracy
 
AUTOCRACY IN AMERICA podcast - www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2024/08/introducing-autocracy-in-america/679474/
 
We're on YouTube! 
https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
 
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
 
We're on Patreon! Join the community: 
https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion
 
It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 
https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 
 
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
 
Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

(Speaking with Nancy was such a highlight of this year. In addition to all we discussed in this raw, beautiful, candid, downright funny conversation, I'm glad to report that subsequent to when we spoke, Nancy was able to "ring the bell" as a cancer survivor!)
 
We’re joined by author, essayist, investigative journalist and the gloriously feral Nancy French. We discuss Nancy's new memoir, GHOSTED: AN AMERICAN STORY, which involves deeply personal topics such as her experiences with sexual abuse, faith struggles, being a ghostwriter for politicians, and increasing political turmoil. Nancy also talks about navigating her long-standing personal and professional relationships amid the Trumpification of the Republican party; how the party has drifted away from folks like her even though Nancy’s positions and philosophy haven’t changed; and how her Christian faith has played a significant role in the journey. We also candidly explore the dynamics of interpersonal relationships, the complexities in religious institutions, and being resilient in troubled times.
 
Nancy French is a five-time New York Times bestselling author, essayist, investigative journalist, and storyteller at the Moth. She’s published op-eds and articles in the Washington Post, USA Today, Time and many other publications. Her investigative journalism into abuse at Kanakuk Kamps appeared on the front page of USA Today. Nancy is also the co-author of The After Party with friend of the pod Curtis Chang and she’s the author of the new memoir GHOSTED: AN AMERICAN STORY.
 
01:20 Nancy French: A Brief Introduction; 
05:14 The Art of Ghostwriting; 
09:53 The Journey of Discovery and Art; 
13:45 The Struggles of Writing Your Own Story; 
19:38 The Challenges of Confronting Past Abuse; 
31:10 The Power of Love and Relationships; 
37:47 The Struggle with Faith and the Church; 
40:25 Reflections on Christian Faith and History; 
41:16 Experiences of Divine Intervention; 
42:07 Discussing Faith with Non-Believers; 
46:19 Political Writing and Its Consequences; 
50:12 The Shift in Political Identity (Despite Not Having Changed); 
52:11 The Impact of Political Polarization; 
55:34 The Power of Human Connection Across Differences
 
We're on YouTube! 
https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
 
 
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
 
We're on Patreon! Join the community: 
https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion
 
It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 
https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 
 
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
 
Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
 
You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as
bsky.app/profile/coreysnathan.bsky.social
 
www.nancyfrench.com
 
GHOSTED on Amazon - https://amzn.to/49tSNzO
 
www.threads.net/@nancyjanefrench

Yeah, this ages well. Seriously... This conversation with Bill Kristol was from April of this year. Some of the discussion applied to that moment in time (eg. bemoaning the Mets tepid start to the 2024 season); but much of it still applies even given the outcome of the latest election. With that, here are the notes from one of our "Best of 2024" conversations...
 
Are REPUBLICAN VOTERS AGAINST TRUMP our greatest BULWARK against authoritarianism and the most significant constituency in DEFENDING DEMOCRACY TOGETHER? (Dad jokes about the future of our Constitutional Republic aside...) Bill Kristol shares his thoughts on the state of our democracy and how this year's consequential election is shaping up.
 
We're on YouTube! 
https://www.youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
 
So glad to be joined again by Bill Kristol, Editor at Large of The Bulwark; Director of Defending Democracy Together; and Host of Conversations with Bill Kristol. We took time to reflect on Bill’s early political experiences, including his roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations, his academic career, and his work with the Project for the Republican Future. We also touch on our shared passion for baseball, particularly for the New York Mets! We then delve into Bill’s critical views on the Trump presidency, the rise of authoritarianism, and the importance of defending liberal democracy. He shares insights into his efforts with the Republican Voters Against Trump initiative and the importance of bipartisan engagement in preserving democratic norms. We then discuss the impact of social and political polarization, the significance of grassroots activism, and the need for open, exploratory dialogue across ideological divides. We wind down with Bill emphasizing the resilience of the American political system and the potential for positive change through collective action and constructive discourse.
 
00:52 Meet Bill Kristol: A Storied Career in Politics; 
01:58 Baseball and Politics: A Personal Connection; 
04:09 Navigating Political Ideologies: From Youth to Present; 
05:41 The Evolution of Political Beliefs and the Impact of External Changes; 
10:18 The Threat of Illiberalism and the Defense of Liberal Democracy; 
15:21 Exploring the Dangers of Trumpism and Authoritarian Tendencies; 
26:56 The Role of Intellectuals and Voters in Shaping Political Futures; 
33:59 The Impact of Testimonials from Former Trump Voters; 
34:53 The Strategy Behind Targeting Swing Voters; 
35:54 Challenges and Strategies in Political Advertising; 
36:55 Building a Broad Coalition Against Trump; 
42:09 The Role of Money in Politics and Campaign Strategies; 
44:34 Fostering Careers and Nurturing Talent in Politics; 
50:43 The Evolution of Political Discourse and Outreach; 
54:36 Final Thoughts on Political Engagement and Hope
 
We're on Patreon! Join the community: 
https://www.patreon.com/politicsandreligion
 
It would mean so much if you could leave us a review: 
https://ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics 
 
Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.
 
Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
 
You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as
bsky.app/profile/coreysnathan.bsky.social and www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.
 
www.thebulwark.com
 
www.defendingdemocracytogether.org
 
bsky.app/profile/billkristolbulwark.bsky.social