In this episode, host Corey Nathan reconnects with his longtime friend Gary Keifer, an expat currently living in Peru. Gary brings a refreshingly honest and “untethered” perspective to U.S. politics, unfiltered by party loyalty or institutional affiliation. With a background in comedy, improv, and theater, Gary offers thoughtful insights rooted in personal experience and global observations. The conversation spans topics from immigration and working-class politics to why Gary abstained from discussing American politics for years—until now. Together, Corey and Gary exemplify what it means to engage in civil discourse across ideological lines.
What We Discuss:
Why Gary calls himself an "untethered expat" and what that means for his political views.
How the Clinton-era Democratic strategy toward the working class contributed to the rise of Trump.
Why immigration is the central issue Gary believes needs urgent resolution—and how both parties have failed on it.
The limitations of elite political commentary and the value of everyday perspectives.
Why Trump’s populism appeals to working-class voters despite his billionaire status.
The potential dangers of overreaching political mandates and ignoring opposing voices.
Episode Highlights:
[00:02:00] – Corey introduces Gary, a longtime friend with a unique expat perspective on U.S. politics.
[00:04:30] – Gary explains his belief in choosing “common people” over public figures for meaningful conversations.
[00:08:00] – Why Gary broke his two-year vow of not discussing U.S. politics.
[00:10:30] – How Bill Clinton’s shift away from labor shaped modern political realignment.
[00:16:00] – A comedic (and thought-provoking) take on Trump’s origin story and Steve Bannon’s influence.
[00:30:00] – Gary criticizes both parties for exploiting immigration and creating a caste system.
[00:34:00] – Corey and Gary analyze Biden’s early decisions and whether reversing Trump-era immigration policies was a political mistake.
[00:45:00] – The bipartisan immigration deal Trump blocked—and what it reveals about political strategy.
[01:00:00] – Gary pleads: “Just give Trump the win on immigration so we can move on.”
Featured Quotes:
“Fascism doesn't just appear out of nowhere. It fills a void left by something else.” – Gary Keifer
“You can’t skip Chapter One of fascism—how we got here matters.” – Gary Keifer
“Compromise is the substrate of democracy.” – Corey Nathan
“At the end of the day, we're just regular guys trying to have conversations most people are avoiding.” – Corey Nathan
📣 Call to Action:
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

In this conversation, host Corey Nathan welcomes back Peter Wehner, contributing writer at The Atlantic and The New York Times, senior fellow at the Trinity Forum, and author of multiple books including The Death of Politics and City of Man. A former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Pete brings a unique perspective shaped by his deep political experience, Christian faith, and unwavering moral compass. Together, Corey and Pete engage in a wide-ranging conversation on the 2024 election, the moral health of our nation, the role of the church, and the constitutional implications of a second Trump presidency.
What We Discuss:
How Pete Wehner processed the pivotal moments of the 2024 election, including Biden’s withdrawal and Kamala Harris’s campaign
Why Donald Trump’s reelection reveals unsettling truths about American society and the church
How constitutional crises might unfold under Trump’s second term
Why thinkers like Vaclav Havel, Solzhenitsyn, and Tocqueville are essential guides in this political moment
How to have more effective and empathetic conversations across political and religious divides
Episode Highlights:
[00:01:00] – Introduction to Pete Wehner’s background and career
[00:02:00] – Pete reflects on Biden’s debate performance and why he felt Biden should have withdrawn sooner
[00:05:00] – Analysis of Kamala Harris’s campaign, debate performance, and what ultimately cost her the election
[00:09:00] – The moral reckoning: what Trump’s reelection says about American voters and the church
[00:14:00] – Pete dissects why evangelicals have remained loyal to Trump and how rationalizations took hold
[00:27:00] – A 30-page email exchange: Pete’s attempt to reason with a high-profile Trump supporter and what it revealed
[00:34:00] – Trump’s “appetite for revenge”: Pete outlines troubling actions already taken in just 60 days of Trump’s second term
[00:41:00] – Defining a constitutional crisis and what happens when a president defies court rulings
[00:46:00] – Finding hope and moral clarity through leaders like Havel, Solzhenitsyn, and Tocqueville
[00:50:00] – The TP&R question: Pete's insights on how to build better conversations across our differences
Featured Quotes:
“Donald Trump is president because of the white evangelical vote. He touched something deep in the hearts of many Christians—and that should trouble us.” – Peter Wehner
“Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well; it’s the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out.” – Vaclav Havel (quoted by Pete)
“We're moving toward a constitutional crisis... If Trump defies a court order, we may find out how many divisions Chief Justice John Roberts really has.” – Peter Wehner
“We have to prioritize human relationships. The ripple effects for the country can be healthy.” – Peter Wehner
Resources Mentioned:
Peter Wehner’s articles in The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/author/peter-wehner/
Peter Wehner’s columns in The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/column/peter-wehner
“The Power of the Powerless” by Vaclav Havel: https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/resource/the-power-of-the-powerless/
The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn: https://www.amazon.com/Gulag-Archipelago-1918-1956-Experiment-Investigation/dp/0061253804
Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/815/815-h/815-h.htm
📣 Call to Action:
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

In this episode, we explore some essential tools for navigating difficult conversations in today’s polarized world. After all, we are part of The Democracy Group! And our goal with TDG and this program is to foster respectful, insightful discussions on politics, religion, and other sensitive topics—without resorting to hostility.
In this solo episode, Corey shares practical strategies for setting boundaries, "clearing the brush" (i.e. assumptions), and focusing on meaningful conversations rather than debates.
📌 What We Discuss:
✅ Why having clear boundaries is crucial for productive dialogue✅ How to recognize and avoid being drawn into unproductive interrogations✅ The importance of "clearing the brush" (i.e. assumptions) and engaging in genuine conversations✅ Why listening and storytelling are more powerful than debating facts✅ How building relationships—not just “winning” arguments—creates lasting change
⏳ Episode Highlights:
🕒 [00:00:00] – Welcome & Calls to Action: Corey shares updates on YouTube, podcast subscriptions, and Patreon.🕒 [00:06:00] – The Big Question: How do we engage in tough conversations without falling into arguments?🕒 [00:07:00] – Setting Boundaries: Recognizing when a conversation is an interrogation vs. a genuine exchange.🕒 [00:10:00] – Admitting Limitations: The power of saying, "I’m not an expert."🕒 [00:14:00] – No Need to Defend What You Don’t Believe: Why you don’t have to argue every point.🕒 [00:21:00] – Clearing the Brush: Breaking down stereotypes and assumptions before real discussions can begin.🕒 [00:26:00] – Seeking Conversations, Not Contests: The difference between dialogue and debate.🕒 [00:32:00] – The Daryl Davis Approach: How listening has led KKK members to renounce their beliefs.🕒 [00:35:00] – Final Thoughts: Tools for better discussions and how to support the podcast.
💬 Featured Quotes:
🗣️ “There is no need to submit to an interrogation. If you want to have a conversation, let’s have a conversation.” – Corey Nathan
🗣️ “I don’t have to defend a position that I don’t hold.” – Corey Nathan
🗣️ “The road to solving a lot of what ails us is not in winning debates—it’s in having healthier conversations.” – Corey Nathan
🗣️ “Conversations lead to relationships, and relationships lead to epiphanies.” – Corey Nathan
📚 Resources Mentioned:
🔗 Daryl Davis – Watch his TED Talk🔗 Braver Angels – Building Bridges Across Political Divides
📣 Call to Action
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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🔥 Final Thought:Go out and have better conversations. Set boundaries, clear the brush, and seek dialogue—not debates. See you next time on Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other! 🎙️

In this episode, host Corey Nathan sits down with Charlie Sykes, a prominent conservative commentator, former talk radio host, and founder of The Bulwark, who's currently writing and podcasting on his excellent Substack To the Contrary. Known for his sharp political insights and willingness to challenge the current trajectory of the Republican Party, Charlie discusses the erosion of democratic norms, the transformation of conservatism, and what the future holds for both parties.
📌 What We Discuss
How the Republican Party shifted from traditional conservatism to a Trump-dominated movement.
Why democracy faces real threats in the U.S. and globally.
The importance of character in political leadership and why many conservatives abandoned this principle.
Whether a pro-democracy coalition can hold back extremism in both parties.
Charlie's thoughts on how we can have better political conversations without dehumanizing each other.
⏳ Episode Highlights
🔹 [00:01:00] Charlie’s Journey: From influential conservative talk radio host to political outcast in the Trump era.🔹 [00:05:00] The Evolution of Trumpism: Why Trump 2.0 is even more dangerous than his first presidency.🔹 [00:12:00] Engaging With Trump Supporters: Is it possible to change minds, or should we focus on mobilizing pro-democracy voters?🔹 [00:22:00] The Republican Party’s Transformation: How the far-right fringe became the mainstream.🔹 [00:35:00] Can Democrats Avoid the Same Mistakes? Learning from the GOP's takeover by extremists.🔹 [00:47:00] America’s Role in the World: Why the U.S. is no longer seen as the leader of the free world.🔹 [01:02:00] Building Bridges Across Differences: The importance of assuming goodwill and finding shared values.
💬 Featured Quotes
"I’d rather be right than Marco Rubio right now." – Charlie Sykes"The Republican Party had multiple off-ramps to reject Trumpism, and they took none of them." – Charlie Sykes"We are living through history, and we don’t have the luxury of indifference." – Charlie Sykes"The challenge isn’t just about talking politics—it’s about figuring out how to get through this without killing each other." – Corey Nathan
📚 Resources Mentioned
Charlie Sykes’ Substack Newsletter: To the Contrary
Charlie’s 2018 book: How the Right Lost Its Mind
The Identity Trap by Yascha Mounk
📣 Call to Action
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

In this episode, host Corey Nathan shares his candid thoughts on hope, concerns about the state of democracy, and the importance of engaging in meaningful conversations. Inspired by recent discussions with David French and Charlie Sykes, Corey explores whether he remains hopeful about the future—both at the national level and in his local community.
What You Will Learn
The state of American democracy and the balance of power
How the First Amendment is being threatened
Why the judicial branch has been a critical check on executive overreach
The role of civil discourse in bridging ideological divides
How personal relationships offer reasons for hope
Episode Highlights
[00:00:00] – Introduction: Exploring the question of hope in today’s political climate[00:01:30] – Why Corey is concerned about the balance of power in government[00:05:00] – The judicial branch as a key safeguard against executive overreach[00:07:30] – Threats to First Amendment rights, including freedom of speech and the press[00:12:00] – The rise of online hostility and how it impacts public discourse[00:18:00] – Finding hope through local engagement and personal relationships[00:22:00] – The power of human connection in bridging political divides
Featured Quotes
"I have concerns about the balance of power and our First Amendment rights—but that doesn't mean I’m without hope." 
"When we engage with each other at the local level, it becomes about relationships instead of transactions." 
"If we really want to change things, we have to start by recognizing each other's humanity." 
📣 Call to Action
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡
 

In this episode, we welcome back David French, columnist for The New York Times, former constitutional attorney, and author of Divided We Fall. We discuss the current state of American democracy, the challenges of political division, and how we can engage in civil discourse despite deep ideological differences. David also shares a personal update on his family and reflects on the profound trials and growth that come with adversity.
📌 What We Discuss:
✔️ How David and his family navigated the challenges of a serious health crisis.✔️ The rise of political polarization and the factors driving it.✔️ Why distinguishing between “unwise, unethical, and unlawful” is crucial in analyzing political actions.✔️ How consuming different perspectives (even opposing ones) helps in understanding political dynamics.✔️ The role of Christian values in politics and how they are being redefined.
⏳ Episode Highlights
📍 [00:01:00] – David French’s background and his journey from litigation to journalism.📍 [00:02:30] – Personal update: David shares his wife Nancy’s battle with cancer and their journey as a family.📍 [00:06:00] – How to navigate personal trials while maintaining faith and resilience.📍 [00:10:00] – The danger of political paranoia and the pitfalls of extreme polarization.📍 [00:18:00] – The "friend-enemy" paradigm in American politics and its influence in Christian fundamentalism.📍 [00:24:00] – Revisiting Divided We Fall: How America’s divisions have devolved since 2020.📍 [00:40:00] – The categories and differences of unwise, unethical, and unlawful political actions.📍 [00:55:00] – The balance between justice, kindness, and humility in political engagement.📍 [01:00:00] – The After Party initiative: A Christian approach to politics focused on values rather than policy.
💬 Featured Quotes
🔹 "You don't know who you truly are until your values are tested." – David French🔹 "If we focus on the relational, we can have better conversations even across deep differences." – Corey Nathan🔹 "Justice, kindness, and humility—if you're missing one, you're doing it wrong." – David French🔹 "The United States has a history of shifting without repenting. We just move on." – David French
📚 Resources Mentioned
David French’s Writing: New York Times
David’s Book: Divided We Fall
The After Party Initiative – More Info
Advisory Opinions Podcast (with Sarah Isgur & David French) – Listen Here
📣 Call to Action
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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David French:🔗 Twitter | BlueSky | New York Times
 
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Let’s keep talking politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️💡

In this episode we dive into the complex issue of Ukraine, America's involvement, and the broader implications for democracy and global alliances. This episode is an exploration of how we can develop reasoned positions on global conflicts, engage in informed discussions, and recognize the limitations of our own expertise.
What We Discuss
How to approach discussions about Ukraine with a reasoned, principled perspective.
The importance of distinguishing between facts and opinions in political discourse.
How to recognize and rely on credible experts rather than self-appointed commentators.
Strategies for engaging in meaningful conversations with those who hold different views.
Why shared values and historical context matter in forming ethical positions.
Episode Highlights
[00:01:00] – Corey introduces the topic, emphasizing the importance of forming reasoned opinions based on principles rather than political affiliations.
[00:04:00] – The rise of divisive, “owning the libs” mentalities in political discourse and the shift away from virtues like decency and integrity.
[00:06:00] – Discussion of a powerful article by Dr. Russell Moore on the moral costs of ignoring Ukraine’s plight and the dangers of moral relativism in international affairs.
[00:09:00] – The importance of verifying facts through reputable sources like the Council on Foreign Relations, rather than relying on partisan opinionators.
[00:13:00] – Why experts like Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Anne Applebaum and military expert Alexander Vindman are critical voices in understanding the Ukraine conflict.
[00:18:00] – The dangers of allowing misinformation to shape public opinion and the tactics used in political debates to shift blame and avoid accountability.
[00:24:00] – Strategies for having better conversations, including finding shared values, hunting for points of agreement, and engaging with intellectual humility.
[00:28:00] – A reflection on balancing justice, kindness, and humility in both personal interactions and global politics, inspired by Micah 6:8.
Featured Quotes
🗣 “We can formulate reasoned positions on complicated issues, including Ukraine, by starting with principles rather than political affiliations.” 
🗣 “Opinion is not fact. There’s a difference between listening to a trusted expert and being swayed by a partisan commentator.” 
🗣 “What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God...” – Micah 6:8
Resources Mentioned
Dr. Russell Moore’s Essay – The Moral Cost of Murdering Ukraine
Anne Applebaum’s Article – The End of the Post-War World 
Council on Foreign Relations – Ukraine Conflict Updates (CFR)
Alexander Vindman’s Book – The Folly of Realism: How the West Deceived Itself About Russia and Betrayed Ukraine
Ross Douthat’s Opinion Piece – Trump and Vance Are Stripping Away Foreign Policy Illusions 
📣 Call to Action
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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Let’s keep the conversation going—respectfully and thoughtfully! 🎙️✨

In this episode we sit down with Congressman Ritchie Torres, a fighter from the Bronx who has spent his life advocating for his community. We discuss pressing issues such as the social safety net, housing inequality, mental health, bipartisanship, and Rep. Torres’ personal journey from public housing to Congress. We also touch on Israel, antisemitism, and the future of American democracy.
What We Discuss:
How Congressman Torres’ personal experiences with poverty and public housing shaped his political career.
His perspective on the Republican budget resolution and its impact on working-class Americans.
Why mental health advocacy is deeply personal to him and the tools he uses to maintain his well-being.
His unwavering support for Israel and the backlash he has faced because of it.
Insights on the current political landscape, Donald Trump’s influence, and the need for bipartisanship.
Whether Rep. Torres is considering a run for governor of New York and what motivates his political aspirations.
How to engage in better political and religious discussions without hostility.
Episode Highlights:
[00:01:00] Introducing Ritchie Torres – His background, legislative achievements, and what drives him.[00:02:00] GOP Budget Cuts & Social Safety Net – Why the latest proposal is a “frontal assault” on working-class Americans.[00:04:00] Personal Story & His Greatest Hero – How being raised by a single mother in the Bronx shaped his worldview.[00:07:00] Mental Health & Politics – How Rep. Torres overcame depression and why he’s open about talking about mental health.[00:14:00] Facing Backlash for Supporting Israel – The threats and vitriol he has endured for his stance.[00:20:00] Avoiding Political Distractions – Why he focuses on core economic issues instead of social media trends.[00:22:00] Trump 2.0 & The Future of Democracy – His concerns about a second Trump presidency.[00:25:00] Political Future: Running for Governor? – Why he believes New York needs a new generation of leadership.[00:27:00] How to Talk Politics Without Killin' Each Other – The importance of intellectual humility and pluralism.
Featured Quotes:
“Before I’m a congressman or a councilman, I’m first and foremost the son of my mother...” 
“I refuse to live in fear of the extremes. I insist on doing what I think is right, even if it means standing alone.” 
“Not only should civil discourse be possible, it’s a necessity for a pluralistic democracy like ours.” 
“If you do the same thing over and over and expect a different result, that’s the definition of insanity.” 
📣 Call to Action
If you found this conversation insightful, please:✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics✅ Support the show on Patreon: patreon.com/politicsandreligion✅ Watch the full conversation on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion
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Let’s continue the conversation with gentleness and respect—and have a great week! 🎙️