Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

Some might be inclined to believe recent discussions about totalitarianism are hyperbolic. In fact, the U.S. has a long history in which law, culture, medicine and religion have all been in the mix on exactly such experiments.

 

In our latest visit with Jon Rauch, we go into depth on his recent piece in The Atlantic, THE U.S. SHOULD APOLOGIZE TO GAY PEOPLE, which profiles America's historical attempts at erasing homosexuality, the impact this pervasive practice had on people's lives and what should be done to make it right. We also delve into Jon's personal experiences and his work on creating frameworks for productive conversations across political and religious divides. It's always worth revisiting Jon's landmark book, The Constitution of Knowledge. Plus we learn more about his personal connection to Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and her family.

 

05:12 The Happiness Curve: Personal and Societal Perspectives;

06:13 The Intersection of Religion, Democracy, and LGBTQ+ Rights;

08:28 Unveiling the History of Government-Led Discrimination Against Gay People;

32:24 The Importance of Acknowledging and Addressing Past Wrongs; 

39:34 Personal Stories of Discrimination and Hope;

41:51 A Tribute to Sandra Day O'Connor: Personal Reflections;

51:11 The Constitution of Knowledge and Navigating Social Media Chaos

 

Let us know what you think. You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

www.jonathanrauch.com

 

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/01/lavender-scare-gay-people-public-service-erasure/677236/

 

www.amazon.com/Constitution-Knowledge-Jonathan-Rauch/dp/0815738862/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0

If the goal here is to reach across our differences and at least to try and understand each other better, this was an epic FAIL!

 

This edition recounts an experience Corey had with someone he's known for a long time and has had many conversations with. But this pseudonymously named "Evan" did something after October 7th that put all subsequent dialogue on a much more strained path. Corey shares some of the comments that were made in the immediate aftermath of war breaking out in Israel as well as more recent exchanges with this individual. And the question is, how could this have gone better? Or is the right answer that sometimes you just have to know when to walk away... and stay away. As much as we might want to stay on the field, as much as we refuse to cede the entire village square to extremists, sometimes the best option is to simply know one's limitations and set healthy boundaries.

 

It's a sincere set of questions. So please let us know what you think. You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Gotta admit: This was fun! Tina Nguyen, national correspondent for Puck and author of THE MAGA DIARIES, gives us an inside look at the complexities within the right-wing movement, Trump's influence, the dynamics at play in today’s Republican party and her behind-the-scenes perspective at different political events (yes, those events). She also talks about what it was like to write this book and her approach to handling social media and online interactions. Oh, and Corey couldn’t help asking Tina about working for Tucker Carlson, the influence he wields and how she views him today. Tina’s so candid about the worlds she’s navigated, whether it's the conservative movement on campuses, the siloed ecosystem of right-wing media and even fringe ideas like the Convention of States initiative. It was also good to hear how Tina found a foothold beyond those early experiences and into other publications like Vanity Fair, Mediaite, Politico and now Puck.

 

00:05 Introduction to Tina Nguyen; 

04:43 Understanding the Dynamics of the Activist Right; 

14:35 The Influence of Media on Politics; 

21:52 The Impact of Tucker Carlson on American Discourse; 

31:25 Reflecting on Personal and Professional Trajectories; 

38:59 Influence and Social Pressure in DC; 

41:10 The Consequences of Speaking Out; 

46:07 The Importance of Relationships in Career Development; 

48:40 The Challenges of Social Media and Public Perception; 

53:55 The Threat of the Convention of States

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-MAGA-Diaries/Tina-Nguyen/9781982189693

 

puck.news/author/tina-nguyen/

In this episode we discuss the problem of vilifying and generalizing political and social groups. You know: “Them” or “those people.” Just as an exercise, Corey did a quick search of “top conservative podcasts” and it was quite revealing. There’s a consistent, pervasive use of sensationalist and divisive rhetoric to portray liberals, “leftists” and anyone not aligned with their respective views, which ultimately fosters misunderstanding and division. So it’s important to think of individual perspectives vs. the dangers of “nut picking”—highlighting extreme cases as representative of whole groups. We can engage in discussions about politics and religion with respect and patience. We can see people as individuals beyond their political beliefs. We also touch on the responsibility of media consumers to critically evaluate the sources and perspectives they engage with to avoid falling into the trap of “the perniciousness of them.”

 

01:12 The Perniciousness of "Them"; 

02:31 Exploring Top Conservative Podcasts; 

03:53 The Impact of Media Consumption; 

06:20 The Mischaracterization of "The Left"; 

06:54 The Question of Conservative Identity; 

08:57 The Influence of Media on Perception;

09:58 The Decline of Traditional News Sites; 

13:43 The Danger of Generalization; 

28:00 Seeing the Individuality in Each Other

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

Here's that article about the dropoff in traffic to news sites: https://www.therighting.com/therighting-unveils-2020-to-2024-election-year-traffic-comparison 

Have you ever posted something on social media only to have someone drop in to completely disagree with you? Well, that sort of thing is the genesis of this conversation. Corey's buddy from high school, Rich Weiss, joins us to discuss politics, education, media influence, and the impact of social media on public discourse. Rich Weiss, a musician with the band Guilty Pleasures and an 8th grade teacher, and Corey explore their differing viewpoints on various political and societal issues, including the role of the media, education system challenges, and specific policies from the Trump administration. The dialogue also touches on the importance of listening, the potential benefits of ranked choice voting, and the ways to nurture relationships across differences. And believe it or not, Corey and Rich demonstrate how engaging in meaningful conversations about contentious topics is both possible and beneficial. We can do this!

 

01:10 Introducing Rich Weiss; 

02:17 The Genesis of the Conversation; 

02:54 Rich's Political Awakening and Journey; 

09:20 Rich's Teaching Experience and Views on Education; 

13:10 Rich's Views on Current Political Issues; 

31:05 Discussion on Media Consumption and Information Sources; 

39:26 The Double-Edged Sword of Media Democratization; 

40:44 The Importance of Discernment in Consuming Media; 

41:41 Challenging Political Assumptions; 

44:14 The Role of Principle in Politics; 

01:03:43 The Importance of Process in Politics; 

01:09:10 Conclusion: The Power of Listening and Understanding

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

Here's how you can follow Rich's band: www.instagram.com/guiltypleasuresmusic/

 

And here are just a handful of the articles and videos Rich shared:

• ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status 
• www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 
• www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWX_ThcpIsQ 
• www.newsweek.com/balenciaga-bondage-child-abuse-allegations-photo-shoot-claims-social-media-1761519 
• www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/05/17/durham-report-vindicates-trump-fbi-russia-investigation/70222344007/

We’re joined by author, essayist, investigative journalist and the gloriously feral Nancy French. We discuss Nancy's new memoir, GHOSTED: AN AMERICAN STORY, which involves deeply personal topics such as her experiences with sexual abuse, faith struggles, being a ghostwriter for politicians, and increasing political turmoil. Nancy also talks about navigating her long-standing personal and professional relationships amid the Trumpification of the Republican party; how the party has drifted away from folks like her even though Nancy’s positions and philosophy haven’t changed; and how her Christian faith has played a significant role in the journey. We also candidly explore the dynamics of interpersonal relationships, the complexities in religious institutions, and being resilient in troubled times.

 

Nancy French is a five-time New York Times bestselling author, essayist, investigative journalist, and storyteller at the Moth. She’s published op-eds and articles in the Washington Post, USA Today, Time and many other publications. Her investigative journalism into abuse at Kanakuk Kamps appeared on the front page of USA Today. Nancy is also the co-author of The After Party with friend of the pod Curtis Chang and she’s the author of the new memoir GHOSTED: AN AMERICAN STORY.

 

01:20 Nancy French: A Brief Introduction; 

05:14 The Art of Ghostwriting; 

09:53 The Journey of Discovery and Art; 

13:45 The Struggles of Writing Your Own Story; 

19:38 The Challenges of Confronting Past Abuse; 

31:10 The Power of Love and Relationships; 

37:47 The Struggle with Faith and the Church; 

40:25 Reflections on Christian Faith and History; 

41:16 Experiences of Divine Intervention; 

42:07 Discussing Faith with Non-Believers; 

46:19 Political Writing and Its Consequences; 

50:12 The Shift in Political Identity (Despite Not Having Changed); 

52:11 The Impact of Political Polarization; 

55:34 The Power of Human Connection Across Differences

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.nancyfrench.com

 

GHOSTED on Amazon - https://amzn.to/49tSNzO

 

www.threads.net/@nancyjanefrench

"I'm the bad guy?" This is about the whole idea of being part of group - the word "tribe" is often used - that thinks of itself as the good guys and anyone outside of that group as the bad guys. But do we ever stop to ask whether "I'm the bad guy?"

 

Here's the reference from the movie FALLING DOWN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLmuF-0P4tk

 

In this episode, Corey discusses the concept of personal accountability in the context of political and religious engagement. He explores his experiences with political disagreements, how personal conduct can alienate and vilify, and how the refusal to accept one's role as the bad guy can fuel conflict. There are specific instances where Corey owns up to failing to uphold the principles of peaceable conversation and draws attention to the fact that acknowledging personal fallibility can be a significant step toward grace and understanding. Admitting it is the first step, right?

02:11 Reflections on the Movie 'Falling Down'
03:51 Political Polarization and the 'Good Guys vs Bad Guys' Mentality
04:50 Personal Experiences with Political Disagreements
12:23 Continuation of Personal Experiences and Reflections
20:09 The Role of Virtues in Political Engagement
27:14 Confessions, Grace, and the Journey Towards Understanding
28:54 Closing Thoughts and Listener Engagement

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

Donald Trump's supposedly "perfect call" was the furthest thing from perfect. In this episode, Alexander Vindman tells us what was so dangerously wrong about it as well as WHY IT MATTERS.

 

Alexander Vindman, retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel and the director for European Affairs on the White House’s National Security Council, shares valuable perspectives on the Trump administration, Donald Trump’s unhinged lawlessness and the dangers the country faces if Trump is given another term. Dr. Vindman, having earned a Doctorate in International Affairs from Johns Hopkins, discusses international geopolitics, focusing particularly on Russian aggression and corruption. Lt. Col. Vindman offers a firsthand account of his experience in the Trump White House, the damage that’s already been done and the resilience of the U.S institutions that hold firm amidst these pervasive threats.

 

Throughout the conversation, Alex emphasizes the central role of local communities and the effectiveness of conversation in addressing divisive socio-political issues. His candid reflections on his own experiences -  as an immigrant serving the country, in the face of profound institutional challenges and even his personal setbacks (eg. Operation Cabbage Patch) - offer a compelling narrative about American resilience and the ongoing pursuit of a 'more perfect union'. This was an in-depth primer on international affairs, national security threats and democratic values. Lt. Col. Vindman had so many valuable insights for listeners interested in understanding the complexities of today's political landscape and the role of dialogue in bridging societal divisions.

 

WHY IT MATTERS: alexandervindman.substack.com/

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

I know, I know! Not everything’s okay. And yeah, there’s so much we can worry about. But, seriously. It’s gonna be okay.

 

In this episode, we take stock of a number of ways things have gone off the rails as well as what we’re looking at down the road. We get into the potentials of a second Trump term and its implications on American democracy. We outline potential threats of another Trump administration such as weaponizing the department of justice, using the military against domestic protest, and withdrawing the U.S. from NATO among others. Despite these potential challenges, there’s still reason to be hopeful. And it’s worth constantly reminding ourselves that things will be okay - one way or another.

 

We can account for the current state of divisiveness within the country, particularly around sensitive topics like immigration and the wave of disinformation. Despite legitimate skepticism and criticism of Trump and the way things are shaping up, it’s worth maintaining some equilibrium. In other words, as one curtain said to its other half, the other curtain, “Pull yourself together!” While bad things could happen, life will still go on. We each have agency to dictate how we react to and experience what's happening around us and, ultimately, the ability to still find a sense of peacefulness in life.

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: 

https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

 

You can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

And here's a link to that special edition of The Atlantic, IF TRUMP WINS:

www.theatlantic.com/if-trump-wins/

Do political conversations leave you feeling like a 'combatant', a 'cynic' or just 'exhausted'? Are you a 'disappeared one' or do you have 'disappeared ones' that were a part of your life? Curtis Chang provides a roadmap to become a 'disciple' – Hopeful and humble.

 

In today’s episode, we welcome Curtis Chang, who's been on this program previously, to discuss The After Party, a timely, much-needed new project he launched with Dr. Russell Moore, David French and Nancy French. We dove deep into the concept of Christian politics, conspiracy theories, and the impact of societal divides on personal relationships. Curtis shared his thoughts around the need for a new approach to politics in the church, as well as a method for Christians to engage in political conversations without damaging relationships.

 

We explored Scripture, such as the differing political identities between Matthew the Tax Collector and Simon the Zealot, and examined how they managed to come together for a greater cause. (And for what it's worth, Tax Collectors and Zealots of the 1st Century make today's Republicans and Democrats look like besties!) Curtis explained a four-quadrant model that categorized Christians in politics as Combatants, Exhausted, Cynics, or Disciples. The goal of the program they created, The After Party, he said, is to move people towards the Disciple quadrant where both hope and humility are high. Corey also opens up about some personal experiences with harsh political divides and recounted how meaningful face-to-face reconciliations had been. Curtis encouraged listeners to take The After Party course and put humane relationship and engagement back into the church’s approach to politics.

 

redeemingbabel.org/the-after-party/

 

redeemingbabel.org/about/

 

And here's Curtis's excellent podcast, Good Faith:

redeemingbabel.org/podcast/

What's the defining principle of (what passes for) conservatives today? Hating the Left. In this edition, we talk about the fact that hating the left is 

• NOT a governing philosophy; 
• NOR is it a winning strategy; 
• and it's NOT even conservative. 

First, we get into how this all came about going back to the emergence of Rush Limbaugh as an early pioneer of the anger-tainment, conflict entrepreneur business model, followed in the early 90s by Fox News and now by an entire industry of television, online, podcasts and other media.

 

We then look at how "the Left" is being defined. Spoiler alert: It's not very precise or particularly accurate; but the broad pejorative label allows for the generalization, mischaracterization and vilification that's become the basic currency of the anger-tainment media complex. 

 

So how can one say that hating the Left is not a governing philosophy? More specifically, it's not an effective governing philosophy. We assess how the Republican caucus in the House has responded to the opportunity to get everything they supposedly wanted to address what's happening on the Southern border. We also critique Florida governor Ron DeSantis's actual record and whether his "where woke goes to die" agenda is actually conservative. Another spoiler alert: It's not.

 

And of course, hating the Left has proven to be a losing strategy. We look at how the Republican Party has fared over the last several cycles with this raison d'etre of hating the left. Last spoiler alert (if you haven't been paying attention): So much winning? Uh, not so much.

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: 

https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

Republican Senators Reach Deal on Border - https://to.pbs.org/4825a4K

 

time.com/6266618/ron-desantis-florida-governance-essay/

 

www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/05/18/donald-trump-paradox-gop-00097458

 

Are science and belief in God incompatible? Dr. Francis S. Collins, renowned for having led the Human Genome Project and the former Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), says science and faith are two different ways of understanding God's creation.

 

We dove right in and had so much to explore!

• His father's folk music collection that is a true national treasure; 
• Connecting music with the mysteries of the universe both as a scientist and a person of faith; 
• An encounter with a heart patient that led Dr. Collins to his faith in Christ; 
• How he got the job to lead the Human Genome Project (no, it wasn't an answer to an ad on Craigslist); 
• Leading the NIH during a worldwide pandemic; 
• The ongoing harrassment and even death threats he and his colleagues at NIH have had to endure; 
• Struggling to understand the emergence of the anti-vax movement; 
• Nurturing relationships with folks who hold very different views such as the late Christopher Hitchens; 
• The BioLogos Foundation; 
• And the most interesting book club in the world!

 

Dr. Francis Collins is the former director of the National Institutes of Health. And was the longest serving director of NIH — spanning 12 years and three (very different) presidencies. Dr. Collins is a physician-geneticist noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes and his leadership of the international Human Genome Project, which culminated in April 2003 with the completion of a finished sequence of the human DNA instruction book. Dr. Collins' research laboratory has discovered a number of important genes, including those responsible for cystic fibrosis, Huntington's disease, a familial endocrine cancer syndrome and, most recently, genes for type 2 diabetes among others. Dr. Collins was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in November 2007 and the National Medal of Science in 2009.

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: 

https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

biologos.org/

Tackling the hard truth that so many of our votes are actually empty calorie votes. "Empty calorie votes!?!? What in the world is that?" you might ask. 

 

It's important to state at the top that it's still important to vote. So, go out and VOTE! But there are several factors that render a vast majority of votes as electoral stuffing for all intents and purposes. It could be due to some voters always going for the Rs or always going for the Ds right down the line and would never even consider the possibility of checking a box for the "other team." There are also districts and states that are so heavily favored for one party or another, that the results are essentially predetermined.

 

But there are some districts and some states and, most importantly, some people that really can swing from one side to another. And that’s what decides our elections! So that's what we dive into on this edition of the program. Plus, we address what we can do about it, i.e. How do you persuade the persuadables?

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: 

https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

On this episode, Corey was part of a roundtable conversation over at Freedom Road with Lisa Sharon Harper. We were also joined by Rev. Dr. Waltrina Middleton and Dr. Claudia Owens Shields. This circle of friends came together to reflect on 2023 and consider what's ahead for us in 2024. It was originally recorded for the Freedom Road Podcast which you can find on all the major podcast apps.

 

Waltrina is the executive director of Community Renewal Society and a senior consultant with Freedom Road, specializing in Spiritual Formation. Claudia is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in multi-ethnic psychology, formerly tenured professor at the Chicago School of Psychology. Claudia also serves as a senior consultant with Freedom Road. Lisa Sharon Harper is the founder of Freedom Road, a consulting group dedicated to shrinking the narrative gap, and the author of several books including FORTUNE: How Race Broke My Family and the World and How to Repair It All and THE VERY GOOD GOSPEL: How Everything Wrong Can Be Made Right.

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: 

https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.threads.net/@lisasharper

 

www.threads.net/@freedomroad.us

 

freedomroad.substack.com

 

waltrina.org/

 

freedomroad.us/who-we-are/dr-claudia-owens-shields-ph-d/

If you don't like nuance, you're gonna hate this episode. If you see everything through a binary, either/or partisan lens, this edition ain't for you. If you think those who don't share your political views are the enemy, just don't bother. For the rest of us...

 

This talk is about the economy. Corey recently posted about the S&P hitting a record high as a way to initiate a conversation about the domestic macro economy. And boy howdy! Some folks just didn't want to hear it. So this is a response to a number of the comments that were shared. The challenge in such threads is to practice the objective of who we are. Can we talk about this issue in a better way? Ya know, the whole "without killin' each other" part of this endeavor.

 

For reference, here are links on several key indicators of the economy:

• Inflation - https://www.statista.com/statistics/1394307/monthly-inflation-vs-core-inflation-us/
• Unemployment - https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/us-job-growth-beats-expectations-december-wages-rise-solidly-2024-01-05/
• GDP growth - https://www.statista.com/statistics/188185/percent-change-from-preceding-period-in-real-gdp-in-the-us/
• Stock Market (Dow, S&P, Nasdaq) - https://stockcharts.com/freecharts/historical/marketindexes.html

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: 

https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

In this episode, we're joined by Will Wright and Josh Burtram of the Faithful Politics podcast. They’ve been on the show before and we have a lot of crossover listeners. Will did a great job with the show notes. So here's our "duplicative language..."

 

"...We explore the evolving role of churches in promoting diversity and inclusivity, reflecting on how religious institutions navigate today's political and social landscape. The discussion also tackles the varied perceptions of Donald Trump's faith among Republicans and Democrats, offering a nuanced view of how political allegiances can influence religious perspectives.

 

"The episode further addresses the contentious topic of Christian nationalism in the context of the upcoming 2024 election. Through a balanced and thought-provoking dialogue, the hosts analyze the interplay between faith and politics, considering how religious beliefs shape and are shaped by political ideologies...."

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: 

https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

Definitely look up, subscribe to and support the Faithful Politics Podcast if haven't already: 

www.faithfulpoliticspodcast.com

In this conversation, we're joined by Greg Lukianoff, the President of FIRE, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression. As illiberal tendencies are on the rise among extreme factions of our democracy, it was refreshing to speak with Greg whose organization is on the front lines of protecting the basic freedoms outlined in the First Amendment. We discussed:

• Greg's own background and how he came to form his views on free speech;
• a benchmark Supreme Court case from the late 70s when the ACLU defended Nazi's right to march in Skokie, IL;
• the "bedrock principle" as well as the limitations of free speech;
• contemporary issues such as whether Donald Trump was within his rights on January 6th as well as whether protesters on college campuses shouting "from the river to the sea" at Jewish students are protected under the freedom of speech;
• and advice for leaders of organizations who are the targets of cancel culture mobs.

 

Greg Lukianoff is President and CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, aka FIRE, and one of the country’s most passionate defenders of free expression. He is an accomplished author of several books including Unlearning Liberty: Campus Censorship and the End of American Debate, The Coddling of the American Mind with Jonathan Haidt and his most recent book The Canceling of the American Mind with Rikki Schlott. He has also written on free speech issues on his Substack and for such outlets as the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post, and was executive producer of the documentaries Can We Take a Joke? and Mighty Ira. Greg earned his undergraduate degree from American University and his law degree from Stanford.

 

It would mean so much if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts: 

https://bit.ly/TPandRPod

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.thefire.org/

 

www.threads.net/@glukianoff

 

greglukianoff.substack.com/

One of the highlights of 2023 was having this conversation with David Brooks.

 

You might recognize David Brooks from his columns in The New York Times or his essays in The Atlantic. Perhaps you’ve seen him on PBS NewsHour or Meet the Press. He’s also a prolific author. In fact, his 2019 book The Second Mountain was a major inspiration for this program. We discuss that as well as David’s new book, How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen (Penguin Random House).

 

Our conversation with "Brooksie" went in a number of surprising directions:

• Sociological observations (and confessions) of New York Mets fans;
• The way lifelong friends enrich our lives;
• Depression - fair warning that this section gets pretty gritty and candid;
• How, as observant Jews, we both discovered Christianity later in life;
• As Jews who are Christian, whether we have any ambivalence;
• American Evangelicalism - talk about ambivalence!
• David's writing process and the motivation of deadlines;
• and much, much more!

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

David's new book HOW TO KNOW A PERSON: 

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/652822/how-to-know-a-person-by-david-brooks

What a highlight it was for us to have two of our favorite guests of TP&R, Pete Wehner and Jonathan Rauch, on together to give tribute to Tim Keller and Michael Gerson.

 

Tim Keller and Michael Gerson were both at the top of the list of guests we wanted to have on TP&R. Sadly we lost both gentlemen within the last year. Mike passed away last November and Tim died in May of this year. But we’re lucky to have Jonathan Rauch and Pete Wehner for this conversation because they were all friends and had a big impact on each other’s lives.

 

Timothy Keller was senior pastor at Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan. As Sam Roberts described him in The New York Times, Tim was "...a best-selling author and theorist of Christianity who performed a modern miracle of his own — establishing a theologically orthodox church in Manhattan that attracted thousands of young professional followers..."

 

Michael Gerson was a nationally syndicated columnist writing for The Washington Post from 2007 until his death on Nov. 17, 2022. He was the author of HEROIC CONSERVATISM and co-author of CITY OF MAN: RELIGION AND POLITICS IN A NEW ERA. He appeared regularly on the “PBS NewsHour,” “Face the Nation” and other programs. Gerson served as senior adviser at One, a bipartisan organization dedicated to the fight against extreme poverty and preventable diseases. Until 2006, Gerson was a top aide to President George W. Bush as assistant to the president for policy and strategic planning. Prior to that appointment, he served in the White House as assistant to the president for speechwriting, policy adviser, deputy assistant to the president and director of presidential speechwriting.

 

Jonathan Rauch is the author of numerous books including THE CONSTITUTION OF KNOWLEDGE: A DEFENSE OF TRUTH. He’s a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic among other publications.

 

Pete Wehner is also a contributing writer at The Atlantic as well as The New York Times, he’s a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum and the author of several books including THE DEATH OF POLITICS: HOW TO HEAL OUR FRAYED REPUBLIC AFTER TRUMP.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: 

https://www.mezawealth.com/

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.ttf.org/about-us/senior-fellows/peterwehner/

 

www.jonathanrauch.com/

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

"Bringing people together to learn how to do democracy again. And we're gonna go after the crazies in the political environment that do not have the interest of the country at heart." - Adam Kinzinger

 

Congressman Adam Kinzinger served in the U.S. House of Representatives from 2011 to 2023, representing Illinois’ 16th Congressional District. During his tenure, he served on the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol, as well as the House Committee on Energy and Commerce and the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Rep. Kinzinger is the founder of Country First, an organization that works to activate the MUTED Majority to reject division and seek proven solutions to the challenges not being addressed by our leaders. He is also the author of RENEGADE: DEFENDING DEMOCRACY AND LIBERTY IN OUR DIVIDED COUNTRY. Prior to being elected to Congress, he served in the Air Force in both Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. He is a Lieutenant Colonel in the Air National Guard and a Senior Political Commentator on CNN.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: 

https://www.mezawealth.com/

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

adamkinzinger.substack.com

 

www.country1st.com

 

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/723495/renegade-by-adam-kinzinger-with-michael-dantonio/

What does it mean to be an EXvangelical? For Mattie Jo Cowsert, how did that deconstruction of her faith, the tradition that she grew up in, all come about? How have family and friends back home reacted to Mattie Jo's journey, specifically with her being an outspoken exvangelical? What's it been like to go back and examine the truth of certain pillars of today's American Evangelicalism such as the Kanakuk Kamps, now known to have employed and protected serial sexual predators? We get into so much more, too - including plenty of politics!

 

Mattie Jo Cowsert is an #exvangelical whose blog God, Sex & Rich People traces her journey from the Bible Belt to New York City as she deconstructs Christian fundamentalism to embrace personal and sexual freedom. Her book of the same name will be out this coming winter and her pilot based on her series premiered this year at the Omaha Film Festival.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: 

https://www.mezawealth.com/

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.mattiejocowsert.com/

 

On Instagram: @mattiejocowsert

 

www.mattiejocowsert.com/godsexandrichpeople

We're joined by Tim Alberta upon the publication of his new book, The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. After starting out with some fun banter about Tim's beloved Detroit Lions and veering off into kids' names, we delve into weighty topics such as whether Tim still considers himself an #evangelical - more specifically, if there are aspects of his faith he's begun to question. Much of this conversation is about the new book: "The main thing is no longer the main thing" for so many megachurch pastors; Donald Trump is "a creation of the culture gone crazy" (especially in the American Evangelical church); whether hucksters like Trump and Paula White, when they're behind closed doors, laugh at all their "suckers" that buy into their various schemes; who Tim thinks is the audience for THE KINGDOM, THE POWER, AND THE GLORY - and who he hopes the audience is; and we get to hear some input from Charles Mingus the 3rd!

 

Tim Alberta is a staff writer for The Atlantic and the former chief political correspondent for Politico, and has written for dozens of other publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, and Vanity Fair. He is the author of the New York Times bestseller American Carnage: On the Front Lines of the Republican Civil War and the Rise of President Trump and the newly released The Kingdom, The Power and the Glory. He co-moderated the final Democratic presidential debate of 2019 and frequently appears as a commentator on television programs in the United States and around the world. And as listeners will quickly learn, Tim is a big time Detroit Lions fan.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:

https://www.mezawealth.com/

 

We're also pleased to give a shoutout to our friends at a great new podcast:

https://leftylooseyrightytighty.podbean.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.bytimalberta.com/

 

www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Power-Glory-Evangelicals-Extremism/dp/006322688X

 

www.theatlantic.com/author/tim-alberta/

On this episode, we were joined by Jahnavi Rao and Nivea Krishnan of New Voters. Jahnavi is the President and Founder and Nivea is the Executive Director of the organization, a 501(c)3 whose mission is to involve students in all aspects of civic life, from registration to education and even emerging technologies. This is a nonpartisan group that, as of the date of our interview, registered 80,000 high school students to vote in 39 states along with 300,000 students that have been reached through their educational efforts.

 

We discussed what inspired Jahnavi to launch the organization and what prompted both of these "badass organizers" to get involved in politics and civic engagement in the first place; they shared what it's like to engage young voters by helping them get registered to vote as well as getting involved in legislative advocacy; we geeked out about politics and polling including how New Voters' Research Network does its research; and what it's like to interact in neighborly ways with folks who might assume they're on a different political team.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: https://www.mezawealth.com/

 

We're also pleased to give a shoutout to our friends at a great new podcast:

https://leftylooseyrightytighty.podbean.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.new-voters.org

 

www.instagram.com/newvoters

 

www.linkedin.com/company/newvoters

Thoroughly appreciated this "Best of" conversation with Dr. Yuval Levin which we originally had right after the terrible attacks of October 7th in Israel.

It was especially timely to have Dr. Yuval Levin on the program as he's not only one of this country's foremost scholars and policy experts, he's originally from Haifa, Israel. So we, of course, discussed what's happening there; however, our recording was only a couple days after the terrorist attacks that sparked the war. We did get to discuss a number of other pressing issues such as Dr. Levin's advocacy for ranked choice voting in primary elections; how to structure institutions to create the right kind of culture; whether our political positions come first or our philosophical and ethical moorings are primary; how Yuval is really just reiterating Aristotle for contemporary society - i.e. "What kind of person do I want to be? And what would that kind of person do in this situation?" With that in mind, a central theme of this program came up: How do we engage with friends, family and neighbors when so many are expressing extremist views? Dr. Levin's recommendation is that sometimes, at Thanksgiving, we just have to say, "I really think you're wrong. Now, pass the gravy..." and leave it at that. And I bet you never knew Alexis de Tocqueville could have been a Borscht Belt comedian!

 

Yuval Levin is the director of Social, Cultural, and Constitutional Studies at the American Enterprise Institute. The founder and editor of National Affairs, he is also a senior editor at The New Atlantis, a contributing editor at National Review, and a contributing opinion writer at The New York Times. Dr. Levin served as a member of the White House domestic policy staff under President George W. Bush. And he has published essays and articles in numerous publications, including The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and Commentary. He is the author of several books on political theory and public policy, most recently A Time to Build: From Family and Community to Congress and the Campus, How Recommitting to Our Institutions Can Revive the American Dream.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: https://www.mezawealth.com/

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

This is a special episode of TP&R as we are joined by Michal Rozen from Israel. Michal is currently a communications and film teacher there. She served in the army when she was 19. But she's found other ways to serve as she is a leftist who believes in peace and non-violence. That said, Michal's partner, siblings and cousins are all active in the IDF. And as you'll hear, there's much unity with everyone helping as they can with the war effort.

 

In this chilling conversation, we get updates on what's happening with family in Israel and how our cousins who are eligible for service with the IDF are doing. We discuss what it's like growing up in Israel and the fact that Israel is a pluralistic country. Michal has always been among Arab neighbors, friends, coworkers and students. We cover the political differences people have, even among family - some who like what Netanyahu has done, some who don't. With Michal's area of study as a teacher, we talked about the way Hamas has been waging an information war in addition to all the other ways they continue to terrorize. Michal also shared thoughts on more accurate information sources and how to be better consumers of the news.

 

Here is one of the follows Michal suggested: www.instagram.com/yosephhaddad

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

You might recognize David Brooks from his columns in The New York Times or his essays in The Atlantic. Perhaps you’ve seen him on PBS NewsHour or Meet the Press. He’s also a prolific author. In fact, his 2019 book The Second Mountain was a major inspiration for this program. We discuss that as well as David’s new book, How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen (Penguin Random House).

 

Our conversation with "Brooksie" went in a number of surprising directions:

• Sociological observations (and confessions) of New York Mets fans;
• The way lifelong friends enrich our lives;
• Depression - fair warning that this section gets pretty gritty and candid;
• How, as observant Jews, we both discovered Christianity later in life;
• As Jews who are Christian, whether we have any ambivalence;
• American Evangelicalism - talk about ambivalence!
• David's writing process and the motivation of deadlines;
• and much, much more!

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

David's new book HOW TO KNOW A PERSON: www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/652822/how-to-know-a-person-by-david-brooks

What standards seem to guide your conduct? What stories shape your sense of the world and your place in it? What stories shape your sense of what it is to be a human being? What kinds of responses to the world’s suffering do you have the most hope for? These are just a few of the big questions we explored with Dr. Ryan McAnnally-Linz in this conversation. They're the kinds of questions he explores with his colleagues Miroslav Volf and Matthew Croasmun at Yale together, in their book LIFE WORTH LIVING and in a number of other settings.

 

Ryan McAnnally-Linz is a systematic theologian and Associate Director of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. He works at the intersection of theology, ethics, and cultural criticism. Ryan co-authored Public Faith in Action with Miroslav Volf. Dr. McAnnally-Linz also co-authored the book we discuss in this episode, Life Worth Living: A Guide to What Matters Most. He co-edited The Joy of Humility and Envisioning the Good Life. Ryan also contributes to the excellent podcast For the Life of the World. And his scholarly articles have appeared in a broad range of publications. If you read enough of Ryan's material, you might come across some of his other interests such as Omaha Hi-Lo Poker and The Big Lebowski.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Here's the fundraiser for IDF Reserves: spot.fund/EquipmentForIDFReserves

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

faith.yale.edu/people/ryan-mcannally-linz

 

faith.yale.edu

 

faith.yale.edu/podcast

 

www.lifeworthlivingbook.com

"...nothing matters in this whole wide world, When you're in love with a Jersey girl..."

 

It was so cool to have Lisa Camooso Miller on the program partly because she grew up just a couple towns over from where Corey grew up in New Jersey! So of course we talked about "my hometown..." We also talked a lot about Lisa's specialty: #communications. And can't we all use a primer on better communication skills? There was so much else we covered such as how Lisa built her career in #politics and #journalism. It all comes down to, as we say in Jersey, "I got a guy" - meaning, relationships. We discussed what's happening in Congress with the Speaker of the House (or lack thereof); how it's being covered; life in a post-COVID world; and we get a peak behind the scenes at how big pieces of legislation actually get passed. Plus, since Lisa has an awesome podcast called THE FRIDAY REPORTER, we did geek out about #podcasting.

 

Lisa Camooso Miller has been a notable communications leader for over twenty years in local, state and federal government posts, political campaigns and committees, as well as advocacy organizations. She is the host and producer of The Friday Reporter podcast. Lisa is a partner at Reset Public Affairs and prior to that position she served as the head of media affairs for the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity. She was previously deputy communications director for the U.S. Secretary of Commerce and the U.S. Speaker of the House.  She also served as the head of communications for the Republican National Committee in 2007. Prior to her time in Washington, D.C., Miller served under two New Jersey governors, where she participated in the recovery and rebuilding efforts following the attacks of September 11th. And did we mention Lisa's a Jersey girl?!?!

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: https://www.mezawealth.com/

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Here's the fundraiser for IDF Reserves: spot.fund/EquipmentForIDFReserves

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

 

www.fridayreporter.com/about-us

 

www.fridayreporter.com

“Oseh shalom bimromav. Hu ya’aseh shalom aleinu. V’al kol Yisrael V’imru” (They who make peace in their high places, may they bring peace upon us, and upon all Israel.)

 

In this episode, we are joined by Dr. Naomi Yudanin and Dr. Erica Harris. We came together to discuss what's been happening in Israel since the attack by Hamas on October 7th; what's happening with our own families there; some background about our family histories including emigrating from Ukraine; how we're processing the reaction we're seeing around the world including here in the U.S.; and most importantly, how we can help.

That's where the fundraiser that Naomi is organizing, Equipment For IDF Reserves, comes in. We are raising money on behalf of Naomi's friends, Yonatan and Evelyn Seltzer, who have recently been mobilized as part of the 360,000+ reserve soldiers recruited by the IDF to fight Hamas. They are in need of basic and defensive equipment, which has been difficult to acquire and distribute quickly. Like many of their fellow reservists, they're scrambling to acquire these essentials and end up paying for it themselves. Please consider helping Yonatan, Evelyn, and other soldiers like them buy basic goods (including socks, underwear, hygiene products, warm clothing, etc.) in the next few weeks as they prepare to fight Hamas. Here is the link: spot.fund/EquipmentForIDFReserves

 

Additionally, Dr. Harris is in the process of providing low fee or pro-bono services to victims of the war in Israel as well as their families. Databases are currently being created that many therapists are joining to provide services to these individuals. If anyone would like further information, they may contact Dr. Harris through her website at www.ericaharrisphd.com.

 

Dr. Erica Harris is a licensed clinical psychologist whose areas of expertise include trauma and PTSD, anxiety, depression, relationship conflict, addiction, coping skills, and life transitions. Dr. Harris also provides crisis treatment for patients struggling with situations in the moment, in order to help them cope more adaptively.

 

Dr. Naomi Yudanin is a computational biologist by training who describes her vocational background as a "professional data nerd building a better healthcare experience for all." Naomi is currently the Director of Medical Data at Munich RE.

 

 

spot.fund/EquipmentForIDFReserves

 

ericaharrisphd.com

 

naomiyudanin.com

 

zamirchoralfoundation.org

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as  www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

Please consider participating in a charitable effort our family is supporting: http://spot.fund/EquipmentForIDFReserves

 

It was especially timely to have Dr. Yuval Levin on the program as he's not only one of this country's foremost scholars and policy experts, he's originally from Haifa, Israel. So we, of course, discussed what's happening there; however, our recording was only a couple days after the terrorist attacks that sparked the war. We did get to discuss a number of other pressing issues such as Dr. Levin's advocacy for ranked choice voting in primary elections; how to structure institutions to create the right kind of culture; whether our political positions come first or our philosophical and ethical moorings are primary; how Yuval is really just reiterating Aristotle for contemporary society - i.e. "What kind of person do I want to be? And what would that kind of person do in this situation?" With that in mind, a central theme of this program came up: How do we engage with friends, family and neighbors when so many are expressing extremist views? Dr. Levin's recommendation is that sometimes, at Thanksgiving, we just have to say, "I really think you're wrong. Now, pass the gravy..." and leave it at that. And I bet you never knew Alexis de Tocqueville could have been a Borscht Belt comedian!

 

Yuval Levin is the director of Social, Cultural, and Constitutional Studies at the American Enterprise Institute. The founder and editor of National Affairs, he is also a senior editor at The New Atlantis, a contributing editor at National Review, and a contributing opinion writer at The New York Times. Dr. Levin served as a member of the White House domestic policy staff under President George W. Bush. And he has published essays and articles in numerous publications, including The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, and Commentary. He is the author of several books on political theory and public policy, most recently A Time to Build: From Family and Community to Congress and the Campus, How Recommitting to Our Institutions Can Revive the American Dream.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management: https://www.mezawealth.com/

 

Here's the fundraiser for IDF Reserves: spot.fund/EquipmentForIDFReserves

 

And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.

This is a special, timely conversation about what's happening in Israel. We invited our friends who produce and host DIRTY MODERATE, Adam Epstein and Dawn Sorokin, to work through some of the real history of Israel and that region; some of our own family's history; numerous false and destructive narratives that need to be confronted; how we're muddling through everything that's unfolding; and much more.

 

Here is one charitable effort that our family is supporting:

http://spot.fund/EquipmentForIDFReserves

 

Be sure to visit Dirty Moderate's platforms here:

Anytime Matt Lewis joins us, we have a grand ole' time! In this free flowing conversation, we make a pitch for how to solve the dumpster fire known as U.S. Congress: In light of the #Barbenheimer summer, Congress should consider the #FitzpatriHeimer fall. (cf. Co-heads of the Problem Solvers Caucus, Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick, R-PA, and Rep. Josh Gottheimer, D-NJ.) We also cover how to talk to some friends and family in one information bubble, and other friends and family in a whole other political news silo. We get into his latest book FILTHY RICH POLITICIANS and how it's a bipartisan problem. Matt shares how he prepares for interviews; how driving is a great time to write notes and even take a nap (...just kidding); we do some rank prognostication on the Speaker Sweepstakes; and we even talk some baseball!

 

Matt Lewis is a senior columnist at the Daily Beast and the author of Too Dumb to Fail: How the GOP Betrayed the Reagan Revolution to Win Elections (and How It Can Reclaim Its Conservative Roots) and his new book Filthy Rich Politicians: The Swamp Creatures, Latte Liberals and Ruling-Class Elites Cashing in on America. You might recognize Matt from his appearances on MSNBC's Morning Joe and prior to that as a CNN political contributor. Matt’s also provided political commentary on Real Time with Bill Maher, Face the Nation on CBS, the NewsHour on PBS, and ABC’s Nightline. Matt’s writing has appeared in outlets such as the Wall Street Journal, GQ, the Washington Post, and Politico among others. Matt previously served as senior contributor for the Daily Caller and, before that, as a columnist for AOL’s Politics Daily. Matt is also the host of Matt Lewis and the News and is the co-host of The DMZ along with Bill Scher.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.thedailybeast.com/author/matt-lewis

 

twitter.com/mattklewis

 

mattklewis.com/books-articles-media

 

mattklewis.com/matt-lewis-and-the-news

What is the distinction between civility vs. politeness? How do we do life together? Why do so many of us have a lust to dominate others? How do we navigate the vertical relationship between the people and our governing authorities? More importantly, how do we navigate our horizontal relationships among our neighbors? How can we have a debate without it devolving into a quarrel? We've been grappling with these questions since the oldest story in the world has been told and since the oldest book was written.

 

ALEXANDRA HUDSON is a writer, popular speaker, and the founder of Civic Renaissance, a publication and intellectual community dedicated to beauty, goodness and truth. She was named the 2020 Novak Journalism Fellow, and contributes to Fox News, CBS News, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, TIME Magazine, POLITICO, and Newsweek. She earned a master’s degree in public policy at the London School of Economics as a Rotary Scholar, and is an adjunct professor at the Indiana University Lilly School of Philanthropy. She is also the creator of a series for The Teaching Company called Storytelling and The Human Condition. Her first book, The Soul of Civility: Timeless Principles to Heal Society and Ourselves, is forthcoming from St. Martin’s press, which we cover at length on this episode.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

alexandraohudson.com

 

www.civic-renaissance.com

 

alexandraohudson.com/book-preorder

Mike Madrid makes his triumphant return to TP&R! We explored why significant numbers of Latino voters are drifting away from the Democratic Party; what explains the drift toward authoritarian populism of much of the Republican Party; how Fox News and the conservative media ecosystem keep their audience so angry; whether there are any Republicans worth supporting; we had some disagreement on whether to keep the offramp open for those who want to depart the Trump Train; what Mike means when he says that every day we go forward is a day closer to the end of Trumpism; and that politics is downstream of culture. And here's a doozy: How many votes in the upcoming presidential election really matter? Out of 150 million votes, how many votes actually swing the election? And which ones?

 

Mike Madrid is a national political strategist, an expert in demographics and Latino politics. Mike’s academic work on Latino politics became the foundation for groundbreaking communications and outreach strategies in California, Texas, Florida and nationwide. Later, Mike was a co-founder of the Lincoln Project which played a significant part in defeating Donald Trump in 2020. Mike also lectures on race, class and partisanship at USC; he is the co-host of The Latino Vote podcast along with Chuck Rocha; and he is the author of the upcoming book (Spring of 2024), THE LATINO SOLUTION.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.threads.net/@mykemadrid

 

twitter.com/madrid_mike

 

latinos.vote/

Such a joy to have Wajahat Ali back on TP&R! Even before we got to the formal intro, Waj had Corey laughing to the point of tears. And yes, that was a snort - a laugh-snort! (a lorf? a snaf?) But laughter was a good salve for the serious subjects we covered. We discussed how power doesn’t like to be confronted and grappled with whether change can happen without discomfort. We were candid about our own mental health and what tools we've each developed to nurture good mental health. There was also a nuanced point of disagreement regarding parents’ rights to curate what their children are reading. And then we explored some important questions: Can we persuade those who disagree with us? If so, how? Or is it all catharsis?

 

Wajahat Ali is a writer originally from the Bay Area. Waj has been an attorney; a New York Times op-ed writer; a CNN commentator; co-host of Al Jazeera America’s The Stream; lead researcher and author for the Center for American Progress’s report Fear Inc., Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America. He’s currently a columnist for the Daily Beast and is the author of the excellent, funny, at times heart-wrenching book that came out in 2022 titled Go Back to Where You Came From: And, Other Helpful Recommendations on Becoming American. Waj is the co-host of democracy-ish. And rumor has it, he is an aspiring gold-medalist in the Lego Olympics.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.wajali.com

 

www.thedailybeast.com/author/wajahat-ali

 

www.dcpofficial.com/democracy-ish

Is a hotdog a sandwich? And why is that an important question? (Just trust me: It is!) Yascha Mounk of Johns Hopkins University joined us for this conversation to discuss his latest book THE IDENTITY TRAP: A STORY OF IDEAS AND POWER IN OUR TIME. What is meant by the term “identity synthesis?” In recent years, terms like “identity politics,” “cancel culture” and being “woke” have been used to refer to the topics that are dealt with in the book. So with the urgency of fighting the dangers of right-wing authoritarianism, why address the identity trap? What advice is there for arguing and organizing against the identity trap? And is there reason to be optimistic?

 

YASCHA MOUNK is Associate Professor of the Practice of International Affairs at Johns Hopkins University, Founder of Persuasion, an online magazine devoted to defending the values of free societies; he’s a Contributing Editor at The Atlantic, a Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, he is the host of the Good Fight podcast, and the author, most recently, of The Identity Trap: A Story of Ideas and Power in Our Time.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/712961/the-identity-trap-by-yascha-mounk

 

www.persuasion.community

 

www.persuasion.community/podcast

 

“(S)ix pieces of advice for arguing and organizing against the identity trap..." 

1. Claim the Moral High Ground
2. Don’t Vilify Those Who Disagree
3. Remember That Today’s Adversaries Can Become Tomorrow’s Allies
4. Appeal to the Reasonable Majority
5. Make Common Cause with Other Opponents of the Identity Synthesis
6. …But Don’t Become a Reactionary

 

Dr. Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI). Dr. Jones is also the author of the forthcoming book, The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future as well as the award-winning books White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity and The End of White Christian America. Robby writes regularly on politics, culture, and religion for The Atlantic, TIME, Religion News Service, and other outlets. And you might recognize him from his appearances on CNN, MSNBC and NPR. He also writes weekly at robertpjones on substack, a newsletter for those dedicated to the work of truth-telling, repair, and healing from the legacy of white supremacy in American Christianity. Dr. Jones holds a Ph.D. in religion from Emory University, an M.Div. from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and an undergrad degree in computing science and mathematics from Mississippi College.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.prri.org

 

www.amazon.com/Hidden-Roots-White-Supremacy-American/dp/166800951X/

 

robertpjones.substack.com

 

And please support our friends at BEST OF THE LEFT - www.bestoftheleft.com

Mariana Alfaro, reporter on the breaking political news team at The Washington Post, has insights about the changing landscape of journalism; how to do excellent reporting, especially given some of the hostile environments contributors to the Fourth Estate are subjected to; appreciating the role of good journalism in a healthy democracy; how to collaborate with other top notch writers on the larger, breaking stories in American politics; yes, we break down some of those current events such as the numerous criminal cases facing ex-President Donald Trump; and why... MUSTARD SKITTLES??? For crying out loud, WHY?!?! 

 

Mariana Alfaro is a politics reporter at The Washington Post covering breaking news and was one of two reporters behind Post Politics Now, The Post’s live, breaking politics news feed.  She joined The Post in 2019 as a researcher for the Daily 202, the newspaper's flagship politics newsletter. Before that, Mariana worked as an intern for the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Insider and The Texas Tribune. A native of San Salvador, Mariana graduated from Northwestern University's Medill School.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.washingtonpost.com/people/mariana-alfaro

 

twitter.com/marianaa_alfaro

Have you ever wondered how primetime news commentary shows on major networks are made? Have you ever wondered why guys like Tucker Carlson say the kinds of things he says? Our guest on this episode, Mike Leon, can tell you all about it. Mike shares what really happens behind the scenes on the set of Fox News. And some of the secrets are quite surprising. He also provides insights on how we can be better consumers of news and analysis. 

 

Mike Leon is a Rutgers journalism graduate, with 20+ years of TV, radio & digital media experience, including production stops in news & sports, from Fox News to ESPN to MSG Networks (to name a few). He is the host of the Can We Please Talk? podcast, a top 200 news commentary podcast in the U.S. that breaks down the latest headlines, featuring interviews with award-winning journalists, current & former government officials, historians, legal analysts, best-selling authors & even yours truly!

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.leonmedianetwork.com

 

www.leonmedianetwork.com/can-we-please-talk

What's at the root of the differences between generations? How different are those in the Silent Generation (that's who came after the Greatest Generation) from GenZ and "Polars" (which is the working name of the youngest generation)? Are major historical events like the Great Depression, World War II or, more recently, the Great Recession and COVID 19 the most significant factors in shaping a generation? Or could it be technology? Our guest, Dr. Jean Twenge, says it's the latter. In particular, Dr. Twenge asserts that it's technology's "daughters," the slow life strategy and individualism that have evolved over the course of the six generations she covers in her latest book, GENERATIONS. And that's just scratching the surface!

 

JEAN TWENGE, PHD, is a professor of psychology at San Diego State University and has written extensively on generational change, including many scientific papers and several books including her most recent one titled Generations: The Real Differences Between Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Boomers, and Silents—and What They Mean for America's Future. Dr. Twenge’s work on generational differences and technology is based on a dataset of 39 million people. Her research has been covered in Time, Newsweek, The New York Times, USA Today, U.S. News and World Report, and The Washington Post, and she has been featured on Today, Good Morning America, CBS This Morning, Fox and Friends, NBC Nightly News, Dateline NBC, and National Public Radio.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.jeantwenge.com

 

jeanmtwenge.substack.com

 

www.jeantwenge.com/generations-book-by-dr-jean-twenge

This is a special presentation of Let’s Find Common Ground from our friends at Common Ground Committee. CGC’s mission is to bring healing to the national challenges of polarization and incivility, inspiring and motivating the public to find common ground. They do this by demonstrating how influential people of opposing views can find agreement without compromising core values. Here are the show notes from this episode of Let’s Find Common Ground:

 

"Moderate Republican Will Hurd insists that across the country 'there is more that unites us than divides us.' The former GOP Congressman threw his hat into the ring in June with a video announcement that he's running for President of the United States. Our latest episode of 'Let's Find Common Ground' re-visits our interview with Will Hurd, recorded one year ago.

 

"Hurd stresses the need for both pragmatism and nuance when tackling guns, immigration, and other hot-button issues. But don't call him a squishy moderate. 'In the media in Washington DC…moderate means middle of the road,' he says. 'But in reality, moderates are the ones that do the hard work and get things done because they’re the ones that are having to take a philosophy to people that may not identify with it.'

 

"Will Hurd served as a CIA agent overseas and conducted briefings for members of Congress. This experience inspired him to run for Texas 23rd Congressional district, which he won in 2014. Congress. He was elected three times in a swing district where Democrats often win. Hurd says in our podcast interview that he succeeded by engaging with voters from both sides, not just voters who shared all his beliefs."

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

commongroundcommittee.org/podcasts/

 

commongroundcommittee.org/

Will Saletan returns to discuss his book, The Corruption of Lindsey Graham: A Case Study in the Rise of Authoritarianism. It's a fascinating, well-sourced study on the public record of Lindsey Graham since 2015 that helps us better understand what's happened to the Republican Party since the rise of Trump. When and why did many Republicans start capitulating to Donald Trump? We discussed how it's not just the rhetoric that changes; but the people themselves that change. As Will profoundly points out, "The more evil you are convinced the other party is, the more evil you will support on the theory that your guy is less evil than theirs." We also covered how Will does "after-action reports" as a journalist to see what he got wrong in his earlier writing in order to calibrate his current work; making better arguments overall, i.e. "What we're not gonna do is punch the referees;" and we went head first into political prognostications about 2024. 

 

Will Saletan wrote for Slate for 25 years, having written over 2700 pieces for the daily online magazine. He’s also the author of Bearing Right: How Conservatives Won the Abortion War. Will joined The Bulwark in early 2022. The Bulwark is an important media outlet which provides political analysis and reporting free from the constraints of partisan loyalties or tribal prejudices. And Will Saletan is now the author of the aforementioned The Corruption of Lindsey Graham: A Case Study in the Rise of Authoritarianism.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.thebulwark.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/The-Corruption-of-Lindsey-Graham.pdf

 

www.thebulwark.com/

 

www.threads.net/@wsaletan

It was a pleasure to be joined by the Editor in Chief of CHRISTIANITY TODAY, Dr. Russell Moore, to discuss his new book LOSING OUR RELIGION. So, of course, we started with the very controversial topic of whether dogs go to heaven! But it was actually a nice way to break the ice before getting into the serious subject of depression. We talked about so much including: How professing Christians dismiss the words of Jesus as being "not for our time"; becoming disillusioned, as in losing some illusions that we previously held; the problem of "protecting the ministry," truth be damned; old coalitions blowing up and surprising new coalitions forming; and much, much more.

 

Dr. Russell Moore is Editor in Chief of Christianity Today and is the author of Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America. Dr. Moore served previously as President of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission and, before that, as the chief academic officer and dean of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, where he also taught theology and ethics. Moore was a Fellow at the University of Chicago’s Institute of Politics and currently serves on the board of Becket Law which exists to defend the free exercise of all faiths, from Anglican to Zoroastrian. He also hosts the weekly podcast The Russell Moore Show and is co-host of Christianity Today’s weekly news and analysis podcast, The Bulletin. And certainly not least among his roles is husband to Maria, dad of five sons and Bible teacher at their congregation, Immanuel Church.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.threads.net/@russellmoore

 

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/709965/losing-our-religion-by-russell-moore/

 

www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/russell-moore-show/

We are joined in this episode by Writer, Producer, Actor and Mentor, LARRY WILMORE! We discussed what drew Larry to comedy, writing, acting and producing; and, yes, we did talk about the WGA strike; why, as a kid, he was compelled by the work of such greats as Houdini, Buster Keaton, the Marx Brothers and Flip Wilson; rebounding from professional setbacks and keeping a healthy mindset; his thoughts on the "TP&R question" - how to be better at talking about politics and religion across our differences; and we got pretty deep with the concept of consciousness, meaning and why humans have a desire to have a life of meaning.

 

Emmy Award winner Larry Wilmore is a prolific producer, actor, comedian, and writer. He is also the host of the excellent podcast Larry Wilmore: Black on the Air. Larry is perhaps best known for his role as host of Comedy Central’s The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore and as the “Senior Black Correspondent” on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. Off-screen, Larry serves as co-creator and consulting producer on HBO’s Insecure, and helped to launch ABC’s black-ish as an executive producer and is a co-creator of the spin-off Grownish. Previously, he has written for In Living Color, The PJ’s (which he co-created), The Office (on which he also appeared), and The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. He also served as creator, writer, and executive producer of The Bernie Mac Show, which earned him his Emmy for “Outstanding Writing for a Comedy Series” and a 2001 Peabody Award. In 2016, Larry hosted the White House Correspondents’ Association Dinner. Larry is also an author, having released his first book, I’d Rather We Got Casinos and Other Black Thoughts, in January 2009.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

 

www.theringer.com/larry-wilmore-black-on-air

 

Reasonable Doubt on Hulu - www.hulu.com/series/reasonable-doubt-226c1cc5-ecc9-4d26-83a6-40131a93ed19

 

Jerry and Marge Go Large - www.paramountplus.com/shows/paramount-plus/video/B8wTNAzgYrU2jPLef3IehO_xl_sg15pn/jerry-marge-go-large-cast-featurette-paramount-/

 

twitter.com/larrywilmore

 

www.threads.net/@larrywilmore

First, can we talk about polling? Todd Rose can! Todd and his team at Populace are figuring out how to do better surveys to get more accurate information. No, really. It’s all about methodology. And wow, do they have some surprising and encouraging takeaways! In particular, WE’RE NOT REALLY AS DIVIDED SO MUCH AS WE THINK WE’RE DIVIDED. So how much are the loudest, most extreme voices driving the conversation in public spaces? And how many of the rest of us are self-silencing? What about COLLECTIVE ILLUSIONS? What’s the definition of collective illusions? And what are some of the most prevalent ones?

 

Todd Rose is the co-founder and president of Populace, a think tank committed to ensuring that all people have the opportunity to pursue fulfilling lives in a thriving society. Prior to Populace, he was a faculty member at Harvard University where he founded the Laboratory for the Science of Individuality and directed the Mind, Brain, and Education program. Todd is the best selling author of Collective Illusions, Dark Horse, and The End of Average. 

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

The Power of the Powerless by Vaclav Havel - https://www.nonviolent-conflict.org/wp-content/uploads/1979/01/the-power-of-the-powerless.pdf

 

http://www.populace.org/

 

http://www.toddrose.com/

 

https://www.amazon.com/Collective-Illusions-Conformity-Complicity-Decisions/dp/0306925680

 

https://www.threads.net/@coreysnathan

Tim Keller and Michael Gerson were both at the top of the list of guests we wanted to have on TP&R. Sadly we lost both gentlemen within the last year. Mike passed away last November and Tim died in May of this year. But we’re lucky to have Jonathan Rauch and Pete Wehner for this conversation because they were all friends and had a big impact on each other’s lives.

 

Timothy Keller was senior pastor at Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan. As Sam Roberts described him in The New York Times, Tim was "...a best-selling author and theorist of Christianity who performed a modern miracle of his own — establishing a theologically orthodox church in Manhattan that attracted thousands of young professional followers..."

 

Michael Gerson was a nationally syndicated columnist writing for The Washington Post from 2007 until his death on Nov. 17, 2022. He was the author of HEROIC CONSERVATISM and co-author of CITY OF MAN: RELIGION AND POLITICS IN A NEW ERA. He appeared regularly on the “PBS NewsHour,” “Face the Nation” and other programs. Gerson served as senior adviser at One, a bipartisan organization dedicated to the fight against extreme poverty and preventable diseases. Until 2006, Gerson was a top aide to President George W. Bush as assistant to the president for policy and strategic planning. Prior to that appointment, he served in the White House as assistant to the president for speechwriting, policy adviser, deputy assistant to the president and director of presidential speechwriting.

 

Jonathan Rauch is the author of numerous books including THE CONSTITUTION OF KNOWLEDGE: A DEFENSE OF TRUTH. He’s a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic among other publications.

 

Pete Wehner is also a contributing writer at The Atlantic as well as The New York Times, he’s a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum and the author of several books including THE DEATH OF POLITICS: HOW TO HEAL OUR FRAYED REPUBLIC AFTER TRUMP.

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

Jonathan Rauch and Pete Wehner both return to the TP&R pod. Only this time we get them together! For a little background, Jon and Pete have a number of fundamental differences (eg. Jon is an atheist and Pete is a devout Christian); yet, they also happen to be good friends. So the conversation was flowing before we even hit record. We were discussing Pete's recent essay in THE ATLANTIC "Morality Is for Trump What Colors Are to the Color-Blind." We discussed pervasive cognitive dissonance, specifically on the part of people of faith and their continued embrace of Donald Trump. We also talked about our own need to have epistemological humility. Then we explored a construct that Jon is fleshing out for an upcoming book. That is, the 4 existential questions of 1) Morality, 2) Mortality, 3) Malevolence, and 4) Miracles. 

 

Pete Wehner is a contributing writer at The Atlantic and a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum. His books include The Death of Politics: How to Heal Our Frayed Republic After Trump, City of Man: Religion and Politics in a New Era, which he co-wrote with Michael Gerson, and Wealth and Justice: The Morality of Democratic Capitalism. He was formerly a speechwriter for George W. Bush and a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. Peter is a contributing opinion writer for The New York Times, and his work also appears in publications including The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and National Affairs.

 

JONATHAN RAUCH, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, is the author of eight books and many articles on public policy, culture, and government. He is a contributing writer for The Atlantic and many other publications including The New Republic, The Economist, Time, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times, and interestingly Religion News Service among many others. His latest book is The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth, which we discussed last time Jon joined us on TP&R. One of his earlier works, Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought (published originally in 1993 and then expanded in 2013) defends free speech and robust criticism and remains a highly influential work. And of course, it must be mentioned that Jon is arguably most famous for not liking shrimp!

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

twitter.com/coreysnathan

 

www.theatlantic.com/author/peter-wehner/

 

jonathanrauch.typepad.com/

 

https://braverangels.org/

 

The Dark Knight clip - www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIYkhb2NjfE

 

The article on the "Need for Chaos" - royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2020.0147

"What the hell are you talkin' about?!?!" Have you ever yelled that at the Thanksgiving table when someone in the family said something about politics? Or when you're hanging out with friends? Or at your church or synagogue? Or at a PTA meeting? Okay, if you haven't yelled it out loud, have you thought it? Really passionately? What about online? Come on, you know you've had those moments when you saw what a friend or relative said on social media and you just wanted to say, in one way or another, "That's crazy! You're completely wrong!" 

 

Well, this conversation is with my home town pal, John Deroian. John and I grew up together in central Jersey - Bruce Springsteen country! We see each other now and then at reunions and stuff like that. But we also stay in touch online. And to be honest, we've had a few of those moments when we totally disagree. But what I’ve appreciated about John is that no matter how much we disagree - and John’s not shy about saying what he disagrees with - he’s always respectful. Not only that, sometimes he shares a perspective I hadn’t considered. So I’m grateful for him being candid on stuff we disagree about. And then also, every once in a while, John is open to something I say that he hadn’t considered. So I wanted to bring him on the program to see if we can… Talk about politics & religion without killin’ each other!

 

Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.

 

www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion

 

twitter.com/coreysnathan

 

www.facebook.com/john.deroian